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In reply to the discussion: Exclusive: Ukraine expected to give up land, some arms under US peace plan, sources say [View all]Emrys
(8,780 posts)58. Reuters, old and established as it is, hasn't been the most reliable source on developments in Ukraine in recent times
Last edited Wed Nov 19, 2025, 09:36 PM - Edit history (2)
Its coverage is only as good as its stringers, and the fact this latest bid of blatant kite-flying is filtered via Axios is not encouraging. Let's just say Axios has form, and not good form, when it comes to anonymous sourcing and Ukraine-US relations.
This was in early 2022:
White House appalled at Axios over Ukraine article
...
The White House spent much of Friday frustrated by an Axios report that it believes was based on a fabricated letter purportedly written by Ukraines top national security official.
The Axios story, written by reporter Zachary Basu, said that Oleksiy Danilov had asked the US earlier this month to go beyond traditional military aid and provide the country with the funding, training and weaponry to support a long-term resistance movement. But Ukrainian Ambassador Oksana Markarova later told Axios that she believed the letter was falsified. And officials at the National Security Council also told Axios they have no record of receiving such a letter from Danilov.
...
We were appalled that Axios apparently did not have time to verify with Ukrainian officials whether or not this letter was a fake, but made sure to reach out to a former Trump official with no knowledge of the situation for a gotcha quote, the senior admin official told me. And then we were even more appalled it stayed up all day despite our repeated asks to take the story down when became obvious the letter was a fake which Axios should have dug up before publishing in the first place.
...
Shortly after I contacted Axios for comment Friday evening, the outlet updated its story. Axios changed the headline which initially read Scoop: Ukraine sought long-term resistance funding to Ukraines ambassador disputes letter asking U.S. for resistance support. The new story, which included Markarova saying the document appeared falsified, cited a former senior Ukrainian official close to Danilov who told Axios that they had received the letter from Danilovs office, and that it was also distributed to Ukrainian American groups and think tank experts in Washington. But crucially, the source also told Axios that he or she could not confirm the letter was officially transmitted to the US government essentially the crux of the initial story.
Notably, at that point, the article didnt include a correction or retraction, despite it seemingly having no real legs to stand on. Later in the evening, a proper correction was ultimately appended to the top of the story. It read, in part, This corrects an original version of this story that stated the Ukrainian government asked for additional assistance from the U.S. government, when Axios was unable to confirm the letter was actually sent. Still, given that Axios is now conceding it was unable to confirm the main point of its initial story, it is surprising that a more forceful correction or full retraction wasnt issued.
https://edition.cnn.com/2022/03/18/media/axios-ukraine-article
...
The White House spent much of Friday frustrated by an Axios report that it believes was based on a fabricated letter purportedly written by Ukraines top national security official.
The Axios story, written by reporter Zachary Basu, said that Oleksiy Danilov had asked the US earlier this month to go beyond traditional military aid and provide the country with the funding, training and weaponry to support a long-term resistance movement. But Ukrainian Ambassador Oksana Markarova later told Axios that she believed the letter was falsified. And officials at the National Security Council also told Axios they have no record of receiving such a letter from Danilov.
...
We were appalled that Axios apparently did not have time to verify with Ukrainian officials whether or not this letter was a fake, but made sure to reach out to a former Trump official with no knowledge of the situation for a gotcha quote, the senior admin official told me. And then we were even more appalled it stayed up all day despite our repeated asks to take the story down when became obvious the letter was a fake which Axios should have dug up before publishing in the first place.
...
Shortly after I contacted Axios for comment Friday evening, the outlet updated its story. Axios changed the headline which initially read Scoop: Ukraine sought long-term resistance funding to Ukraines ambassador disputes letter asking U.S. for resistance support. The new story, which included Markarova saying the document appeared falsified, cited a former senior Ukrainian official close to Danilov who told Axios that they had received the letter from Danilovs office, and that it was also distributed to Ukrainian American groups and think tank experts in Washington. But crucially, the source also told Axios that he or she could not confirm the letter was officially transmitted to the US government essentially the crux of the initial story.
Notably, at that point, the article didnt include a correction or retraction, despite it seemingly having no real legs to stand on. Later in the evening, a proper correction was ultimately appended to the top of the story. It read, in part, This corrects an original version of this story that stated the Ukrainian government asked for additional assistance from the U.S. government, when Axios was unable to confirm the letter was actually sent. Still, given that Axios is now conceding it was unable to confirm the main point of its initial story, it is surprising that a more forceful correction or full retraction wasnt issued.
https://edition.cnn.com/2022/03/18/media/axios-ukraine-article
Apart from the nebulous references to "security guarantees", what's supposedly proposed now is little different to the "deal" the Ukrainians rejected out of hand during the Alaska summit debacle and its backwash. The fact that the discussions have reportedly included Witkoff on the US side gives even less cause for confidence given his obsession with landholding, as befits a property developer, his ignorance of the basics of Ukrainian geography, the clear evidence of his being a poodle in past dealings with Putin, and his inability to even convey accurately to NATO allies the results of his meetings with Putin and what scant concessions Russia has indicated it might be prepared to make.
Vault over the paywall at the Axios article, and way below its snazzy headline, you'll come across a few snags (my bold):
Behind the scenes: One source with direct knowledge said Umerov was empowered by Zelensky to negotiate with Witkoff, and many of his comments were incorporated into the text of the 28-point plan.
* The source claimed many understandings were reached in the talks with Umerov.
* A Ukrainian official confirmed Zelensky sent Umerov to be briefed about the U.S. plan. but said it was an oral briefing and Umerov didn't receive a written proposal from Witkoff.
* The Ukrainian official denied that Zelensky's adviser accepted the terms of the plan during the meeting and claimed Ukraine objects to many of the points.
* Prior to meeting Umerov, Witkoff held extensive discussions on the plan with Russian envoy Kirill Dmitriev.
https://www.axios.com/2025/11/19/trump-ukraine-peace-plan-russia-donbas
* The source claimed many understandings were reached in the talks with Umerov.
* A Ukrainian official confirmed Zelensky sent Umerov to be briefed about the U.S. plan. but said it was an oral briefing and Umerov didn't receive a written proposal from Witkoff.
* The Ukrainian official denied that Zelensky's adviser accepted the terms of the plan during the meeting and claimed Ukraine objects to many of the points.
* Prior to meeting Umerov, Witkoff held extensive discussions on the plan with Russian envoy Kirill Dmitriev.
https://www.axios.com/2025/11/19/trump-ukraine-peace-plan-russia-donbas
Witkoff was supposed to meet Zelensky yesterday during Zelensky's visit to Turkey for talks with Erdogan, but that was called off. Apart from those discussions, Zelensky has a few pressing domestic problems on his plate at the moment, and any hints at capitulation seem unlikely to be considered wise while the aftermath of the recent corruption problems plays out. In terms of Ukraine's non-US allies, such a scheme to placate Russia looks like a non-starter since Poland is incensed by what is believed to have been a Russian attack on some of it rail lines and other countries are being subjected to mounting military and non-military attacks. Some of the territory Ukraine is supposedly being expected to concede includes essential defensive lines Ukraine has spent a lot of time and resources installing because those areas are strategically vital for any further Russian incursions.
In some of the Ukrainian media, the focus seems to be more on, yet again, negotiations about Ukraine being held without due consideration of Ukraine's views, needs and interests, seemingly seen as inconvenient afterthoughts. Here's The Moscow Times (more reliable than its name might suggest):
U.S. Peace Proposal Requires Ukraine to Cede Land, Cut Army Size Reports
Ukraine has received a new peace proposal from the United States that requires Kyiv to cede land controlled by Russia and more than halve its army's size, a senior official briefed on the proposal told AFP on Wednesday.
The plan appears to repeat Russia's maximalist terms demands consistently rejected by Ukraine as tantamount to capitulation.
The draft provides for "recognition of Crimea and other regions that the Russians have taken" and "reduction of the army to 400,000 personnel," the source, who did not wish to be identified, told AFP. The plan would also see Ukraine giving up all long-range weapons.
"An important nuance is that we don't understand whether this is really Trump's story" or "his entourage's," the official added.
It was "unclear" what Russia was supposed to do in return, the source said.
https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2025/11/19/us-peace-proposal-requires-ukraine-to-cede-land-cut-army-size-reports-a91168
Ukraine has received a new peace proposal from the United States that requires Kyiv to cede land controlled by Russia and more than halve its army's size, a senior official briefed on the proposal told AFP on Wednesday.
The plan appears to repeat Russia's maximalist terms demands consistently rejected by Ukraine as tantamount to capitulation.
The draft provides for "recognition of Crimea and other regions that the Russians have taken" and "reduction of the army to 400,000 personnel," the source, who did not wish to be identified, told AFP. The plan would also see Ukraine giving up all long-range weapons.
"An important nuance is that we don't understand whether this is really Trump's story" or "his entourage's," the official added.
It was "unclear" what Russia was supposed to do in return, the source said.
https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2025/11/19/us-peace-proposal-requires-ukraine-to-cede-land-cut-army-size-reports-a91168
And here's the The Kyiv Independent:
US holding secret peace talks with Moscow to end Russia's war against Ukraine, Axios reports
The White House and Moscow have been secretly working on a proposal to end Russia's war against Ukraine, Axios reported on Nov. 18, citing U.S. and Russian officials.
U.S. Special Envoy Steve Witkoff and Russian Envoy Kirill Dmitriev have extensively discussed the 28-point peace plan, an unnamed U.S. official said.
Dmitriev described the secretive peace deal optimistically, saying that, unlike in the past, "we feel the Russian position is really being heard."
Russia has repeatedly issued maximalist demands to Kyiv in previous direct peace talks, including that Ukraine give up its NATO aspirations, demilitarize, and cede territory that Kyiv controls.
https://kyivindependent.com/us-holding-secret-talks-with-moscow-to-end-russias-war-against-ukraine-axios-reports/
The White House and Moscow have been secretly working on a proposal to end Russia's war against Ukraine, Axios reported on Nov. 18, citing U.S. and Russian officials.
U.S. Special Envoy Steve Witkoff and Russian Envoy Kirill Dmitriev have extensively discussed the 28-point peace plan, an unnamed U.S. official said.
Dmitriev described the secretive peace deal optimistically, saying that, unlike in the past, "we feel the Russian position is really being heard."
Russia has repeatedly issued maximalist demands to Kyiv in previous direct peace talks, including that Ukraine give up its NATO aspirations, demilitarize, and cede territory that Kyiv controls.
https://kyivindependent.com/us-holding-secret-talks-with-moscow-to-end-russias-war-against-ukraine-axios-reports/
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Exclusive: Ukraine expected to give up land, some arms under US peace plan, sources say [View all]
muriel_volestrangler
Wednesday
OP
I think Ukraine is disinclined to accept security agreements, as the...
LudwigPastorius
Wednesday
#22
Russia opposed Ukraine joining NATO because it would have blocked them from taking the land for the future pipelines.
cstanleytech
Wednesday
#33
Russia invaded Donetsk precisely to stop NATO extending membership to Ukraine.
maxsolomon
Wednesday
#53
Russia's rationales for its invasion vary almost as windingly as a Trump diatribe.
Emrys
Wednesday
#61
Their last security guarantee when giving up nukes didn't hold up so well
SamuelTheThird
Wednesday
#26
Ukraine needs to be in NATO or have signed legal defense GUARANTEES from US, UK, Germany, Poland and France.
WarGamer
Wednesday
#50
Over the past few years, Ukraine has signed bilateral security agreements with a number of countries
Emrys
Wednesday
#62
"give up land, some arms under US peace plan...... yea that ain't gonna happen.. nt
mitch96
Wednesday
#25
After all this, now Putin is allowed to take land from Ukraine just to go away and leave them alone
FakeNoose
Wednesday
#12
Why should they give anything up? They didn't start the war. Putin should have to pay them to rebuild the country.
Vinca
Wednesday
#19
I approve this plan......if it includes arrests and war crime trials for a number of Russians.
cstanleytech
Wednesday
#34
Nope. Not the right move. Russia go home and expletive you and your horse.
twodogsbarking
Wednesday
#41
Am I wrong in thinking this sounds more like a demand that Ukraine surrender to Russia?
slightlv
Wednesday
#44
F this "peace agreement." One sided BS. Drumpf has been in bed with Vlad for at least 9 years.
Evolve Dammit
Wednesday
#47
Reuters, old and established as it is, hasn't been the most reliable source on developments in Ukraine in recent times
Emrys
Wednesday
#58