“Another European diplomat said the suggestion that Ukraine cut its army seemed like a Russian demand rather than a serious proposal”

Putin says to jump, and trump says how high. Putin is the boss, and these are HIS demands.

Zelenskyy should tell Donny to go blow Bubba and come back when he feels better.

In theory, it should curb Russia from coming back for another bite.

on boarders in the 1990. We see how well that worked.

last one didn't do shit to prevent an invasion and war.

The only agreement it would (or should) go for is full membership in NATO.

Russia will want that off the table as a condition of a settlement.

Ukraine remains in a tight spot.

If Trump agrees to force Ukraine to give up that land to Russia then Russia will suddenly find that it no longer cares what Ukraine does,

Same with Georgia and Moldova with the Transnistrian occupation. NATO Article 5 means in practice that new member states cannot have ongoing territorial conflicts.

This war is not going to end with Ukraine driving Russia from Crimea, Donetsk, and Luhansk. They haven't moved Russia back at all in 2 summers. I don't know how that changes.

If you pay attention to what Lavrov consistently says, it's not about territory or NATO, it's about the mythical "nazism" that the special operation was supposed to root out, it's about the concocted stories of the persecution of Russian speakers in Ukraine (of which Zelensky is one), it's about the supposed suppression of the Russian Orthodox Church in Ukraine (a front for the Russian FSB), and if you listen to Putin - as Trump got thoroughly fed up of doing in Alaska - it's about historical grievances stretching back to the time of the Vikings and beyond.

If you listen to Russia's state-sponsored propagandists, it's about imposing Russkiy Mir on the whole of Europe and beyond through literally bloodthirsty and genocidal means.

As for Ukraine not having driven Russia back over the course of two summers, you seem to be the victim of selective and faulty recall.

This was in March 2022:



This was in August 2025:



In any case, obsession about supposed territorial gains ignores how tenuous Russia's hold on that (usually ruined) territory is and how much of it is PR - suicide dashes by small squads to plant flags on prominent public buildings etc. for a photo op then try desperately to run away, for instance.

As for how it changes, it's changing right now as Ukraine systematically strips Russia of its oil and gas processing and conveying facilities, severely hampering its transport and trade, and consequently its national income.

And comments 21 & 22 pointed that out as well.

I still think they'd want one another one - if they can't get a path to NATO membership.

the Budapest Memorandum. Ukraine had a security guarantee from the U.S., Great Briton and Russia. We all know now that Russia spat upon that agreement. Signatures on paper will not deter Russia in the future. Ukraine must be allowed to maintain its' sovereign borders as well as a strong military.

And 3 previous replies noted the same thing.

Are you saying Ukraine would NOT want security guarantees from the US this time?

Ukraine must be allowed to maintain their pre-2014 invasion borders as well as the right to build and maintain a strong military. Security guarantees are great, but as the terrorist state of Russia has proven, they are only signatures on paper and not a deterrent to Russia.

I think this was is close to what Ukraine rejected several months ago. Note it again gives Russia some land they don't control after YEARS of war.

While none of us want them to get anything, they won't agree to end the war for nothing.

Russia will get the hard lesson of their nation bankrupt, over one million souls killed or wounded and status as a pariah state for years to come. They will learn to not invade their neighbors, if that's possible in the Russian mindset.

a change of Russia leadership and Russians tired of a crap economy and bodies of their young soldiers coming back in body bags.

It will likely end in negotiations, and hopefully soon.

I don't think that many more. The economic issues are finally taking a toll. And at something like 1000 dead soldiers a day plus the huge losses in drone strikes on expensive military targets and oil refineries... there is gas rationing in Crimea now... this will soon drive what were lower middle class Russians ( that aspired in resource rich Russia to enter the middle class in Europe ) into the poor house and their anger will eventually cause the Putin nationalist empire / oligarchy to fall. What replaces it will be interesting. But they will withdraw from Ukraine.

Russia has learned some hard lessons on asymmetric warfare and are now starting to deploy their own drone attacks on Ukraine infrastructure. But Ukraine is made of some very tough people. I don't think Russia can defeat them... and even if Ukraine surrenders, Russia will constantly be fighting a nationalist resistance campaign in Ukraine for decades if not centuries.

It received Security Assurances which have DIFFERENT LEGAL MEANING.

A Security Guarantee requires material assistance... assurances do not.

Start here:

https://cisac.fsi.stanford.edu/news/budapest-memorandum-myths

Ukraine wasn't in a strong bargaining position at the time and felt it had to take what was offered, and cast-iron guarantees weren't part of that. The geopolitical situation in Europe and Russia looked rather different then than it does now.

The lask of observance of even the meagre assurances in the Budapest Memorandum should inform atttudes towards any future agreement. Either Ukraine is a sovereign nation or it isn't. If Russia can dictate how it organizes its defence, it won't be sovereign.

But I don't think NATO is possible.

Whether they'll be worth more than the paper they're written on in practice remains to be seen, but at least collaborations on military hardware are proceeding apace and countries other than the US have continued to step up their support.

I think most of the European NATO countries feel the need for Ukraine to be in NATO as keenly as Ukraine feels the need to join it. It will be de facto a buffer on Russia's southwestern front for the foreseeable future anyway, never mind what Trump meddingly blethers about. Once Putin's gone, the geopolitical situation may change - hopefully for the better - but I doubt it before then.

Putin has done himself no favours by making his attacks on the likes of Poland more blatant. The Poles were feeling pretty belligerent with Russia and Belarus anyway.

be worth anything is Ukraine in NATO. Anything short of that and Russia will re-invade. Just give it a few years.

meaning of assurances or guarantees, be my guest. But in the Budapest Memorandum, the U.S., Great Briton AND Russia agreed not to threaten or use military force against Ukraine, except in self-defense or as permitted by the United Nations Charter.

Russia was not attacked by Ukraine. Ukraine was attacked by Russia. Russia broke this agreement.

The signatories also pledged to respect the independence and sovereignty of Ukraine within existing (existing as of December 5, 1994) borders. Russia broke this "pledge."

Anyway you look at this, the present day Russian state has no honor. They lie and break agreements, then play the victim. It's all smoke and mirrors meant to confuse the world.

BTW, their are many legal scholars who argue that the Budapest Memorandum DOES guarantee legally, security for Ukraine as well as its sovereignty.

linking this right wing talking point is just fine.

Yes, it is just fine - because it's fucking news.

Give me a break., plus the article makes it sound like Russia is winning the war.

I have a named source, me, who says Ukraine is going to win the war without giving up any of its sovereign land.

Reuters is one of the most respected news organizations in the world (along with AP and the BBC), and may well be the oldest. Whining that they didn't name their source indicates you haven't attempted to understand how news has worked in the past century or so.

Reuters has reporters. You're just an unnamed source on the internet.

And Europe will step up and provide the arms the US won’t.

It's up to The Ukrainians if they want to continue to fight.

Damn you again, Putin, ravenous dictator! 😬

I know it's Ukraines decision, but I support what ever they decide, but i hope they say FUCK OFF!!

Trump's the only one who can save Putin from himself

This is total bullshit! This is rewarding the original unprovoked attack on Ukraine.

Ukraine has done nothing but defend itself and its right to exist against one of the most powerful nations in the world. Tell me why the war criminal Putin deserves to steal land from Ukraine!? He should be made to pay reparations to Ukraine just to walk away and call it quits.

President Z would have to be out of his mind to accept a deal like that.

Ukraine would be part of the Russian Empire within three years if he did.

can't help himself

Russian spy ship breaches allied waters, fires lasers at military planes
British Defense Secretary John Healey said a Russian spy ship had entered the NATO ally’s northern waters and directed lasers at military planes sent to monitor it. He warned the Kremlin that “we are ready” if the vessel tries to travel further south.

Newsweek has contacted the Russian embassy in the U.K. for comment.

Why It Matters

It comes as NATO says Russia has been repeatedly testing the reaction and resolve of the Western alliance in a string of serious provocations as Moscow rapidly rearms in preparation for a potential major war in Europe. The Kremlin denies seeking war with NATO, which is aiding Ukraine’s defense against an ongoing Russian invasion, and says the reverse is true.

What To Know

“As I speak, a Russian spy ship, the Yantar, is on the edge of U.K. waters north of Scotland, having entered the U.K.’s wider waters over the last few weeks,” Healey said in a speech at Downing Street in London on Wednesday morning.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/russian-spy-ship-breaches-allied-waters-fires-lasers-at-military-planes/ar-AA1QJtHM

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100220817497

Appeasement of an aggressor state is not the answer to lasting peace. Total defeat for the aggressor bully is the only way. Neville Chamberlain and the Munich Agreement are the most often cited example of this.

The war might be paused if Ukraine is pressured into a weak position through an agreement, but it WILL be only paused. Russia and Putin will not honor this "agreement." Russia has proven that a Russian signature on a treaty is not worth the paper it's written on. Russia is a mafia/terrorist state and by invading Ukraine more than once now, Russia has spat upon the Budapest Memorandum, which had Ukraine give up it's nuclear arsenal for a guarantee of Ukraine's sovereign borders. You can bet Russia wants Ukraine to give up the Flamingo cruise missiles and any other advanced weaponry and likely as well, it's most advanced and best trained military units. If such an "agreement" is signed, Ukraine's death knell will begin (with Ukraine weakened through this "agreement," Russia WILL invade again) and the high probability of WWIII will be on the horizon.

This "deal" is strangely timed though. Ukraine is winning at the moment. Russia's economy will collapse and the present power structure in the Kremlin is scrambling for survival. Forcing Ukraine to acquiesce at this moment only gifts to Russia the time to prepare for waging more war.

As good as a Spirit Airlines guarantee!

Yeah, nothing, just as I thought. This is not a serious proposal.

A security guarantee from Trump’s America?

Putin should have never been allowed to keep Crimea. It just encouraged him to broaden his horizons.

Why should Ukraine give up now when they are winning? Russia is running out of everything, especially money. President Zelenskiy doesn't have to follow trump's demands, especially when he did so well with that Israel/Gaza plan. Terms should be delivered to Russia that include reparations, and get off Ukraine's damn land.

I mean... what the hell is Russia "giving up?".... and why would a country under constant attack deplete their military ranks like this? Ceding land to Russia is what Russia demanded from the very start of this illegal war.

I don't believe anything that comes out of the current U.S. administration is geared towards peace or Ukraine's benefit. trump wants the "war" over with, and he doesn't care who pays the price, or what that price ultimately costs. This situation demands patience, a deep understanding of not only current events but also past events that led into and are still part of the current situation, and a deep desire for equity and inclusion - words that are curses for this administration. And true National Security has to be given top priority with a democratic vs non-democratic scenario, such as this. You just don't cede land... or anything else... from a democracy to communism and/or fascism... no matter what our country, itself, is doing. Frack trump!

Because Russia so honored the first agreement. This is Sudetenland all over again.

Putin deserves nothing, except maybe prison - along with Mr Dump.

What a brilliant idea! Simply surrender and the war is over! We should have tried that in WW2..Imagine if Roosevelt had simply surrendered to the Nazis... Why did nobody think of that!!

And asshole can add yet an 180th war to the ones he has ended!

Give that man the Lenin Useful Idiot Peace Prize!!

All that's happened is that Trump made
a proposal because Putin pulled that
puppet string.

Putin has the goods on trump and is telling him to get this done or he exposes trump's secrets.
Trump is fretting Epstein and this is another delay.
Trump will hold back any military aid unless Z agrees to this piece of shit.
Ukraine won't agree and may have to decide it's time to stop hitting just military and industrial targets.
Force Putin to use "stupidity" and make trump look like a total ass to the world.
Then see what happens when the rest of the world stops providing goods to the US and closes air space to Americans.
He really does want to start WWIII.

Last edited Wed Nov 19, 2025, 09:36 PM - Edit history (2)

Its coverage is only as good as its stringers, and the fact this latest bid of blatant kite-flying is filtered via Axios is not encouraging. Let's just say Axios has form, and not good form, when it comes to anonymous sourcing and Ukraine-US relations.

This was in early 2022:

Both Trump and Piggy Poot

They will be gone soon. Ukraine needs to hold on until then. Europe seems to be pretty solid with Ukraine because the Russian terror will be on their doorsteps and until Trump is gone they can't rely on the US to be a reliable partner.

The whole Trump administration is a bunch of Russia compromised traitors. Every veteran intelligence agent and service member should speak out against this. This asshole sold out the Kurds and negotiated the disasterous pullout from Afghanistan and neglected to inform Biden’s team. Biden found out once he got in. All the people who died serving our country because of the Russians ( Korea, Vietnam, skirmishes in Latin America and the Middle East before 911), the traitor just threw their service away. Now he’s selling out all of our NATO allies and they came to our aid in Iraq and Afghanistan. They spent blood and treasure for the US. Fuck him.

I hope Zelensky tells him to go fuck himself with a rusty pipe!

OUTSIDE OF my circle of politically educated and aware friends, I've never met anyone who cared about whether Trump was fully owned by Putin or not.

I'd like to be able to explain that. But since I don't understand it, I won't make the attempt.

And, Trump is probably sitting back, stuffing his face with Big Macs, waiting for that call from the Nobel Committee.

No

That is Ukrainian land, those are Ukrainian people, and Crimea should go back
to the Crimean Tatars.

The Reuters headline is ambiguous. Without the "would be", it makes it sound like Ukraine is planning on doing this and I doubt they are.