General Discussion

Stargleamer

(2,565 posts)

102. You can't settle the trolley car problem this way. . .

Thu Nov 13, 2025, 01:38 PM

Nov 13

by looking just at how bad one side is. As Takket explains, millions of people losing their health care, and 4 million becoming uninsured according to the CBO, was in the eyes of the majority of Senate Democrats a worse outcome then people losing their jobs and their SNAP benefits (although the later was somewhat unclear, as SNAP benefit checks had been sent out for November).

You have to tackle this head-on, that's the only way to do so with integrity. People can get new jobs, getting needed healthcare can be much more of a difficult, intractable problem.

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People wanting the shutdown to continue into the holidays - who has 40 plus days of funding in reserve to survive on? [View all] bigtree Nov 12 OP

Thune would have jettisoned the filibuster. pat_k Nov 12 #1

40 damn days bigtree Nov 12 #3

I stand by my analysis. pat_k Nov 12 #6

capitulation was just around the corner? bigtree Nov 12 #11

People already ARE at the mercy of the Felon. pat_k Nov 12 #12

the federal workers bigtree Nov 12 #13

You think this is some sort of "politics as usual"? pat_k Nov 12 #16

did you ask those families to sacrifice their livelihoods for your politics? bigtree Nov 12 #19

The Senate Democrats took the ONLY shot they had at preventing the deaths of tens of thousands. pat_k Nov 12 #30

they needed to end their politics over the holidays bigtree Nov 13 #54

repukes need to end their cruelty, PERIOD Skittles Nov 13 #67

You see it as politics. To me, it was a moral imperative. pat_k Nov 13 #73

Absolutely excellent BeerBarrelPolka Nov 13 #75

Are you willing Mossfern Nov 13 #81

Post 73 pat_k Nov 13 #85

That doesn't answer my quesiton to you Mossfern Nov 13 #96

The answer is that moral failure has worse consequences. pat_k Nov 13 #98

Get off the damn high horse FHRRK Nov 13 #51

high horse bigtree Nov 13 #56

You know why you stand by your analysis? FHRRK Nov 12 #45

Great post. Scrivener7 Nov 13 #71

Yep and we're going to do this again in 3 months !!! uponit7771 Nov 13 #91

BUT in 3 months mr715 Nov 13 #104

Nope. SNAP is now funded until Sept 2026 NickB79 Nov 13 #119

Agree 100% mr715 Nov 13 #103

Spot on! (with one quibble) pat_k Nov 13 #110

Its kicking the can down the road in the wrong direction. CentralMass Nov 12 #2

THE HUMANS IN THE FUCKING MIDDLE bigtree Nov 12 #5

The worst is yet to come. The GOP will give up nothing. CentralMass Nov 12 #8

RIGHT!!! No bully says I'll be nicer next time if you give up now uponit7771 Nov 13 #94

With preparation more than 3 months but that didn't happen, Dem leadership did no prep work for uponit7771 Nov 13 #93

What they did mr715 Nov 13 #109

Yep, it'll happen again until democrats prepare the pupulace to hold out for a long time uponit7771 Nov 13 #121

And it'll be worse next time. They'll take away more. Scrivener7 Nov 13 #72

No one here wanted people to suffer! leftstreet Nov 12 #4

so helpless to do a thing for them bigtree Nov 12 #7

WHY the HELL did the shutdown occur? choie Nov 12 #22

We gained over a month of making the public aware that the repubs supported ending the subsidies onenote Nov 13 #57

the fault lies with REPUBLICANS Skittles Nov 12 #24

well they weren't Skittles Nov 12 #9

You're not wrong there n/t leftstreet Nov 12 #10

But they weren't about to cave. Mossfern Nov 13 #115

We'll never know n/t leftstreet Nov 13 #116

What behavior, in consideration Mossfern Nov 13 #117

They didn't wanna kill the filibuster leftstreet Nov 13 #118

HOW did "SNAP beneficiaries got a raise" ??? Jack Valentino Nov 12 #14

the benefit amount was increased in the agreement bigtree Nov 12 #15

YOU need to 'keep up', my friend--- Jack Valentino Nov 12 #18

you're right, it's an increase in the contingency payment bigtree Nov 12 #20

I agree with much of what you said, people can't live without a paycheck forever... Jack Valentino Nov 12 #25

it was cheeky bigtree Nov 12 #39

It's all good.... I'm usually worse myself, but I like you :) Jack Valentino Nov 12 #44

thank you Skittles Nov 12 #26

I do think the state of Michigan under Whitmer acted much more quickly, Jack Valentino Nov 12 #31

oh absolutely Skittles Nov 12 #34

AND utilizes the 'Trump Justice' department to fight against court orders Jack Valentino Nov 12 #36

It didn't increase the funding for SNAP, but it guaranteed it through September 2026 onenote Nov 13 #58

That SNAP benefits will be funded through 9-26 is very good--- Jack Valentino Nov 13 #61

We also have the opportunity to raise the issue before people lose their insurance. onenote Nov 13 #63

Thank you. This is pure propaganda to make us feel like we won something. choie Nov 12 #23

They 'got a raise' back to the normal amount, Jack Valentino Nov 12 #29

when I dove into it I got the actual farce bigtree Nov 12 #41

People who are bellyaching about Democrats "caving" have tunnel vision valleyrogue Nov 12 #17

Then provide one reason why the Democrats pushed for the ACA subsidies when choie Nov 12 #27

It was NOT that 'obvious'---- there are quite a few swing state and swing district Republicans Jack Valentino Nov 12 #33

To a certain extent it was political theater. Or more aptly, political education onenote Nov 13 #60

I think it did a good job showing which party cares about people who need assistance Skittles Nov 13 #64

I've experienced true destitution Samael13 Nov 13 #78

Furthermore it also accomplishes something the republicans cant on their own Samael13 Nov 13 #82

By your logic, there should have been no shutdown at all Sympthsical Nov 12 #21

thank you Skittles Nov 12 #28

ABSOLUTELY. Jack Valentino Nov 12 #38

Thank you. Joinfortmill Nov 12 #32

The historical record is,quite clear.... reACTIONary Nov 12 #35

So do you think we shouldn't have tried? Jack Valentino Nov 12 #42

Whether it was worth it or not... reACTIONary Nov 13 #88

Nancy Pelosi got concessions from Trump iemanja Nov 13 #55

As you note, none of the concessions... reACTIONary Nov 13 #89

Speaker Pelosi would disagree with this assessment nt mr715 Nov 13 #113

With the historical record? Or with the chances this time around? reACTIONary Nov 13 #122

Remember the wall? mr715 Nov 13 #123

Sounds like this was a failed shutdown, not a win.... reACTIONary Nov 13 #124

We don't have to govern. mr715 Nov 12 #37

bumper sticker? bigtree Nov 12 #43

I give no approval to the funding of what Trump is doing. mr715 Nov 13 #50

"What kind of party allows that to go into Thanksgiving and the rest, leaving them under the knife of the republicans" Takket Nov 12 #40

we had the power to remove those workers and their families out of the way of our politics bigtree Nov 13 #47

Ah yes, because we were the ones doing this. mr715 Nov 13 #52

that's specious bigtree Nov 13 #59

Political Crutches mr715 Nov 13 #107

You can't settle the trolley car problem this way. . . Stargleamer Nov 13 #102

And what about the 42 million folks not getting SNAP payments? onenote Nov 13 #62

Don't forget to add in the tens of millions of people on SNAP benefits. W_HAMILTON Nov 13 #66

This needs to be its own OP mcar Nov 13 #80

Thank you for posting this. Phoenix61 Nov 13 #46

+1 Agreed. onenote Nov 13 #48

Give it up. You got your way. iemanja Nov 13 #49

Great post! hamsterjill Nov 13 #83

Thank you. iemanja Nov 13 #87

Yep seems fair angrychair Nov 13 #53

Well... those people were going to get their snap benefits anyway. Scrivener7 Nov 13 #76

Right on. nt mr715 Nov 13 #114

I Believe The Counter-Argument Would Be: Then Why Start?.... ColoringFool Nov 13 #65

did you actually read the message Skittles Nov 13 #70

Thank you, bigtree. summer_in_TX Nov 13 #68

The problem is that the Dem senators did not excerise unity. Intractable Nov 13 #69

Calculating who and when and where. mr715 Nov 13 #105

It wasn't the democrats who shutdown the government. Emile Nov 13 #74

But we're "cruel" nt mr715 Nov 13 #108

Amazing, it's all our fault now. Emile Nov 13 #111

"Won't someone PLEASE think of the children!!" nt mr715 Nov 13 #112

I'm dubious that any of that will happen Samael13 Nov 13 #77

There will be MORE PAIN from lack of healthcare.... BUT..... Martin Eden Nov 13 #79

I agree with your analysis, but I wonder why.... reACTIONary Nov 13 #92

You are correct. Ending the premium tax credits won't end the ACA Martin Eden Nov 13 #99

That is true, it is one step.... reACTIONary Nov 13 #100

So just give them what they want all the time then. BlueTsunami2018 Nov 13 #84

MAGA voters have not felt enough pain yet. nt Hotler Nov 13 #86

I blame this solely on the GOP Torchlight Nov 13 #90

Join the Mass Blackout! BlueWavePsych Nov 13 #95

No one wanted the shutdown to continue into the holidays. Ms. Toad Nov 13 #97

I literally read a poster with 50,000+ posts say it should have gone a YEAR NickB79 Nov 13 #120

Thank you. MorbidButterflyTat Nov 13 #101

Thank you. I believe that the point was made, and there was no point to additional suffereing. NNadir Nov 13 #106