We'll never know, but you can bet the felon would have ramped up the pressure while rank and file Trumpublicans started freaking at the thought of constituents hating on them over Thanksgiving dinner.

I'd have put good money that the filibuster would be gone and the CR with an amended end date would have been passed by 11/14.

It seems to me there is widespread false premise that the only "win" would be getting an extension of the ACA subsidies. The corollary to that is that the shutdown would somehow have gone on forever if the 5 democrats hadn't defected.

The thing is, there were two way ways to "win."

1) Trumpublicans ended the shutdown by adding an ACA subsidy extension

2) Trumpublicans ended the shutdown by jettisoning the filibuster.

Option 2 was always the most likely outcome, and a far, far, far, far better outcome than the "deal."

The 5 additional defectors only needed to hold out another week or so before Thune would cave on the filibuster. The result:

-Instead of saying, "Why oh why did the Dems subject us to this pain for nothing," more would be livid with: "You mean you could have ended this by getting rid of the filibuster before it even started!!!"

-Democrats would be the ones that stood strong, doing battle on behalf of the American people with the leverage they had right up to the point that that leverage was forcibly taken from them.

-Our Democratic electeds would have demonstrated an unprecedented strength.

-People who support the Democratic Party would be riding as high as they were on Friday. Enraged by the ACA loss, but proud as hell of the strength demonstrated.

-The depravity and cruelty shown by the felon during the shutdown would be all the more evident as his Trumpublicans took 100% responsibly for the horror show.

....shit or get off of the pot.

Trump was happy to have the shutdown continue long enough to give him an excuse to suppress the October jobs report, in which the largest mass resignation in history would be captured. (i.e., the 150,000 "fork in the road" resignations became official on 9/30).

Until early November, when it was too early to have a good excuse not to release that report, he didn't put much pressure on Thune. That was about to change, particular with the momentum behind the Democrats coming out of the election and a court order to pay full snap benefits was about to come down.

...jesus, what a cynical and really cruel game to leave these people at the mercy of the republicans and Trump to advantage such dubious political goal.

I really have a hard time believing anyone in power actually expected republicans from the House, to the Senate, to the WH to bend on this just because the government they wanted shut down was closed.

Like I said, we can try that stupid shit in two months. You had 40 days of squeezing these human beings for the politics.

How can anyone sleep at night knowing the anxiety these workers must be feeling as we play with their lives along with Trump?

Enough.

Who gave us permission to use these people as our political pawns? We need to do more than just leave them at republicans' mercy, and, in effect, our own.

And now they are with Democrats as accomplices.

Had our Senators held out until Thune jettisoned the filibuster, the Republicans would own all that cruelty and pain 100%. Drawing a line -- saying, we will not be accomplices in this -- was a moral imperative given the magnitude of the evil we face.

But we are where we are.

And now we have to move forward from here. As I highlighted in this post, however things had played out, there is no version of what we face going forward where we won't have to do the hardest things we have ever done.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100220799769

...that's who we're talking about.

Also everyone else whose survival and livelihood depends on a functioning government.

This isn't a zero sum game. Real people were being hurt by the parties squeezing them for their politics.

Who asked their permission to be used as political pawns for this dubious political strategy, or martyrs for whoever else you're taking about?

No, this is not some political fucking zero sum game.

This is about standing and fighting for what we believe in, and failing that, refusing to be ACCOMPLICES in the destruction of our constitutional democracy.

...simple question with an obvious answer.

Without the ACA subsidies, 4 million people are expected to be unable to afford insurance. And tens of thousands will die prematurely as a result.

It was the cruelty of the felon and the Trumpublicans, NOT the Senate Democrats that inflicted the pain of the shutdown.

Making a "deal" with such people only perpetrates the DELUSION that "bipartisanship" is possible with a party that has effectively gone psychopathic. And that Delusion is going to cause a hell of a lot more harm to people YOU AREN"T CONSULTING on the matter of whether they want their Democratic electeds to (1) use the only leverage they have in an effort save lives, and to use that leverage until it is forcibly taken from them, or (2) go along to get along and be accomplices and keep giving the evil empire their 60 votes whatever horrific cuts they seek to pass.

Frankly, I think a hell of a lot of those Federal Workers, who are lucky enough to have insurance through FEHB, have friends and relatives on ACA and recognize that the pain they were enduring was in a fight for THOSE people.

...because they were knowingly hurting people.

I'm fine with the fact that it was my party that acted. I gave this a chance, I didn't balk or moan. It's been fucking 40 days. Enough.

Look how long it's taking the payments to start up. Thanksgiving's right around the corner.

If we're going to start sacrificing Americans for our politics it needs to be people who can afford it or deserve that callousness.

it is ENDLESS

women, immigrants, LGBTQ, POC, anyone needing assistance, it *NEVER* fucking ends

Refusing to be an accomplice to evil has much more than symbolic or political value. It is the right thing to to. It exposes the evil for what it is. It is, as I say, a moral imperative -- a matter of conscience.

If all of our electeds stood up and acted when a principle we hold sacred demands it, win or lose, come hell or high water, we wouldn't be in this national nightmare.

Objecting to the Florida electors.

Impeaching Bush and Cheney for war crimes.

Filibustering Alito.

The entire House Democratic Conference co-signing articles of impeachment against 47, and inviting their Republican colleagues to join them, every single day.

The entire Senate Democratic Conference pledging to convict, and inviting their Republican colleagues to join them in their pledge, every single day because the crimes are being committed in plain sight.

A joint declaration stating the grievances, usurpations, and abuses with simplicity and signed by every member of the House and Senate. A letter to the American people that puts the facts before a candid world once again.

Refusing to vote with the Republicans that are starving Americans to make sure the healthcare premiums of 40 million Americans more than doubles.

These are all acts of conscience. Moral imperatives. It is the FAILURE to do them that is "playing politics."

If our electeds were all saints, they would never play politics when a principle they claim to hold sacred is at stake.

But they are not saints. We have a lot of good people who do act when conscience demands. But we have too many who are political animals when it comes to matters of conscience. They may have well meaning intentions. They may think they are being practical. But their failures are wrongheaded and incredibly damaging to this nation and the people who live within its borders. And I believe it is up to us to help them see the light. Calling. Writing. Making appointments with staff. Calling on them to stand strong for sacred principles. To stop with the "can't win, so STFU."

Robert Arnold expresses my feelings far better than I can.

...
They'll tell us it was necessary;
that it was the responsible thing to do.
But responsibility without conviction
isn't leadership. It's survival.
And survival is not the same as purpose.
...

to go into debt, wonder where your next meal is coming from, lose your housing to a MAGA landlord?
Unless you are willing to suffer as the Federal employees who have been furloughed for so long have, can we take your position with a grain of salt?

Many people say they're willing until that reality hits them.
And this is merely Federal employees.
How many others suffered grave consequences due to the shut down?

Unless you're standing on those bread lines, your idealism is well respected, but not that helpful to those who are forced to suffer for it.

My hope now it that the Democratic leadership has the fortitude to shout loud and clear that the coming suffering because of Republican policies are placed squarely on Republicans. They were NEVER going to approve the extended tax credits for the ACA.
It is REPUBLICANS who starved those who paid the consequences of the shut down. NOT Democrats.

We are dealing with a party full of sociopaths who will, by any means, no matter who suffers - seek to further the agenda of the top 1% and the "religious" right wing nutjobs

Full disclosure: My daughter is one of those Federal employees who has been furloughed, but still has to work full time. This shut down has just about broken her .... because of it she has to do the job of several other people as well. Thankfully, we can afford to help her financially for the time being - others are not so lucky.

It is the Democratic party's image of being weak, a direct result of refusing to draw lines and stand strong on sacred principles over, and over, and over again, that got us here.

Continued moral failure is not the way out.

It is the Republicans, NOT the Democrats, that are inflicting the harms. We defeat strong and wrong by being Strong and Right. Not by being weak and right.

Millions more will die if someone doesn’t make a stand?

WTF are you doing?!!!

Before you ask I am funding families in ICE abused areas near me, working with the kids too!

Enough! Sounds a lot like Basta, which was used by a fake assed liberal con man who was a fucking piece of shit.

...I'm down here with actual people politicians and their followers regard as their personal political pawns.

The ploy made political headway, but it not only failed to move republicans, it failed to protect the most vulnerable of the people we expected to sit there and take it while we allowed republicans to squeeze them, like that was some sort of heroic act on our part.

Do this shit in two months, and then come back and show us all how well you exploited the workers for your noble purpose, and how different that is from anyone else doing the same for their own politics.

Because it is correct!!!!!!

Supreme Court would have been proven to be corrupted.

Release of Epstein emails would have put more pressure on the RePigs.

This was the easiest win EVER, yet some centrist still try to spin.

Stay strong because you are 99.9999 percent correct.

The GOP will know exactly what it takes to break our resolve. So, whoops, bad tactics I guess. Sure hope we win a majority in the future.

$10 bet says when we're in the majority, the Republicans shut down the government, we'll still be the ones that balk at the "cruelty" of politics.

if we aren't ready to make the cut, we shouldn't be playing with knives.

That cudgel has been taken from them.

As I've posted before, the minority isn't under any obligation to provide votes to the majority. We are not in power in any branch of government. Anything the government does or does not do falls on the GOP EXCEPT for internal Democratic politics.

When we puff up and say we're taking a stand for XYZ, and then slowly but inevitably XYZ becomes XY then X then 0 we end up looking weak, feckless, and frankly absurd.

There was an end game here. The end game was the GOP cashing in its political capital and getting rid of the filibuster. Instead what we got instead was a blowout win for Democrats on election day and then *we* ended up surrendering the narrative for... what? For Thanksgiving?

There is no Thanksgiving for the families being deported.

There is no holiday travel for the seniors that can't afford Rxs.

The data is fairly clear - the public understands the GOP and Trump owned this. Why, then, did we insert ourselves into this? Why did we seek defeat from the jaws of victory?

It is absurd to me that people with my particular view of this are being scolded for being "cruel" to federal workers. I, and my party, did not shut down the government. I, and my party, lack that power. If my party wanted to pretend they had that power they absolutely, positively, could not fold after going all in. They had 1 move. One. Do not budge.

We were never going to win, but we could have not lost. Instead, we lost.

I think we actually had a shot at getting the subsides extended, particularly as MTG and other maga-friendly folk started speaking up. Plus, the giant break on the tariffs. I don't think it was a hopeless battle from the start.

As it started to become clear the Trumpublicans were being stubborn playground bullies with their line in the sand, egged on by the malignant narcissist-in-chief, I wish we had had more of our communicators shift to hammering on the fact that we are using the only leverage we have to get the subsides extended, but if Trump and his Congress are truly determined not to budge on that, they need to end the shutdown right now by eliminating the filibuster. If the American people have no hope that this administration will do the right thing, then end the pain you are inflicting with your shutdown.. End the filibuster and reopen the government now.

If that message had been clearer, sooner, I think the shutdown would have ended sooner. I just didn't hear this kind of message from enough people:

"They may have their line, but we have ours. We will NOT be accomplices in any budget or process that paves the way for them to make the catastrophic cuts they are hellbent on making. We will NOT be accomplices in policies that kill people in red states and in blue states. They need to accomplish the great harms they plan for the nation all on their own. This is their shutdown. They are in control. And it is theirs to end. If they won't do right by the American people, end the filibuster immediately and let federal workers get back to their jobs.

The Mango Malefactor and his cabal will just keep taking what they want and keep doing whatever they want to.

...would you survive 40 days without pay.

If so, you're an exception to the people you expect to suffer through the holidays for your politics.

Don't just act as if they don't exist or are supposed to take this shit because you think republicans care enough about the government their decimating to buckle.

You can try that stupid shit again in two months, ffs.

Stop ignoring the people you're expecting to suffer for your political tactics.

... a long term fight.

Horrible leadership horrible outcome

was broadcast the impression that they had power they never had. "Just let us negotiate!" as though it was ever in the cards. That particular refrain only works if you don't fold the moment the other side starts sweating.

Good grief

People believed the GOP was about to cave

...because, politics, something something.

What a sham to for people demanding this to even pretend to care about other people's lives. God help us all if this hostage taking of federal workers is the remedy.

The Dems should have said "fuck all" to the ACA subsidies because they knew very well that the repugs would never budge. So what was the point in them letting the shutdown move forward? The Democrats aren't naive and they aren't victims in this charade either. They played their cards and lost. Pure and simple. We gained nothing.

And that helped fuel our victories in November. But we were facing diminishing returns as the pain being incurred by those unable to afford food for their family or pay rent or utilities and whose lives were disrupted by the airport chaos grew and folks bearing the brunt of it began shifting to a blame both sides mentality. The reality is that the vast majority of MAGA repubs weren't in favor of caving -- they were opposed, in large part because there was no convincing them that the subsidies would be used to provide health care to immigrants. Sure it was a lie and by fighting that lie we convinced a lot of independents, but we didn't change the minds of a material number of MAGATs, and therefore the thought that the repubs were about to cave is pure fantasy that ignores years of repub callousness and lies.

THEY are the people who don't give a FUCK if anyone suffers.

they simply do not fucking care at ALL if people suffer

That's the issue.
They developed talking points to blame the Democrats and chanted them repeatedly.

They have shown that they don't give one shit about their constituents -why would they cave?
Look a their track record of cruelty. They don't care if the government shuts down - that is what they want!

of the behavior and attitude of the present day Republican party, demonstrates that if we persisted that they would give in?
They have shown over and over that cruelty is their default mode.

When Trump told them to, they actually started freaking out and making statements of push back.

Alas, the other side didn't want to kill it either. But, whatever

If you mean that they will receive full benefits this month, instead of a reduced amount---
well, that is NOT "a raise" !

65%

The increase in SNAP benefits for November 2025 allows recipients to receive up to 65% of their promised benefits, which is an increase from the initial 50% that was expected. This adjustment aims to provide more support to those in need during this period.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2025/11/06/snap-recipients-food-stamps-benefits-this-month/87122889007/

I really don't know how that will play out if the government reopens, so you make a good point. The contingency fund only allowed partial payments.

This announcement, as stated in your own link, dated back to November 5th--
and was talking about what would happen if the shutdown were NOT ended---
and going from 50% to 65% of normal benefits is STILL not a 'raise'!
Going from 100% to 110%, THAT would be 'a raise'--

From your link:
"SNAP recipients will receive at most 65% of benefits in November, rather than 50%, the U.S. Department of Agriculture announced in a guidance to states Nov. 5."


I am 'keeping up' because I am a SNAP beneficiary. I received the full amount
of expected benefits for November (100%), from the state of Michigan,
just one day later than normal....
I am not sure whether their action was based upon the court order
that the Trump admin pay 100% of the benefits to the states,
or upon news that the government shutdown would be ended---
but I received the same expected amount of benefits for November,
just on the 10th instead of the 9th...

...my mistake, I think.

You do see that I'm not in favor of any reduction in their pay, something that sprang out of this political construct people expected to move two houses of republicans and the WH.

That's what I'm focusing on here, but kudos to you for finding a flaw.

and the initial story about what would happen with SNAP
seems to have been nullified by legislative action to reopen the government---
but the first story got tangled with the second during the past few days,
but I've been paying very close attention to that one issue and reading numerous
news stories about it...


Meanwhile, the results of the "big ugly Trump bill" dictate
that some SNAP benefits are going to be CUT....
including MINE, whether I "get a job" or not....

You are one of my favorite posters here,
but the line about 'getting a raise' stuck in my craw a bit....
thus my redirection.

...that's why I said your name.

I'm often a bit rough for public consumption, and I'm sorry that I made you feel like I was doing more than giving you a friendly poke.

very important we hear the facts from the actual experiences of others

than most other states---- particularly the red ones. All those people
are very likely still waiting.....

blue states rock, they truly care about people

I'm in red state and a lot of us have stepped up on the donations to the local food banks, we have to do what we can to help our neighbors. I cannot stand the thought of people going hungry while our POS "president" spends money terrorizing people. UGH!!!

which say his government must obey laws about feeding poor people.......

"piece of shit presidential pretender".....


AND, extremely stupidly--- the majority of these people actually voted FOR HIM,
(since the largest number of SNAP recipients are WHITE,
and he reportedly won the majority of the WHITE vote in 2024),

but he stubbornly clings to the propaganda fantasy
that most SNAP recipients are BLACK Democrats,
started by Ronald Reagan somewhere back in the 20th century....


The higher you think you fly, the greater the fall

I eagerly await the sound of a watermelon hitting the ground
after falling from a very great distance.....

And it increased the available funds for WIC benefits by more than $600 million over the prior fiscal year amount.

but the government is only funded through January 2026------

By then everyone who formerly was receiving increased Obamacare subsidies
should be well aware that they have lost them--- including the maggots---

so the Democrats will have another opportunity to raise the issue,
with leverage, prior to the midterm elections---



(and maybe we can work on the 'weak links' prior to that next deadline.....)

Folks who are insured now are insured through the end of the year. The new higher premiums kick in for 2026. And just as legislation required back pay and reinstatement of fired workers, legislation can address, even retroactively, the higher monthly premiums. I'm not saying the repubs will go along, but the opportunity to push the narrative that they are the grinches still is in our hands.

SNAP beneficiaries did not get an increase. Continuing to say it won't make it true.

if the government is 're-opened'---

but that of course is not 'a raise'--- and that was the phrase I took issue with....


The author of the OP is one of my favorite posters here,
but the status of SNAP became very confused in the past few days,
between the court cases and the presumed reopening of the government,
and I would not characterize their misstatement
(from which they have withdrawn) as 'propaganda'.

...but this is beside what I was trying to express.

I'd guess that the SNAP threat for recipients is suspended along with the deal funding government for two more months, fwiw.

and don't see the big picture AT ALL. Sure, we should sacrifice federal workers, the poor, the grocery industry, the tourism industry, the airline industry, and so on down the line in order to do what? To prove what? It seems some have never experienced destitution or potential destitution in their lives.

this was the obvious outcome. It didn't take a genius to know that the republicans were never ever going to surrender. OR was it just political theater so people would come out to vote on November 4th? I'm sure it was just a coincidence that the Dems surrendered right after the election.

who might have seen reason on this issue--- and they still might----

but the fight over this issue has made it very clear to the American people
where Republicans stand--- and for that I think it was worth it!

"Republicans are for Trump, Democrats are for YOU!"


(and only 7 congressional Democrats voted to "cave",
as opposed to over two hundred who haven't... Senate + House)

If we hadn't made an issue of the termination of the enhanced subsidies, it would have remained out of sight for most people. Instead, the republicans were rightly depicted as scrooges willing to do anything not to restore the subsidies. And, yes, that helped us in November. Just as the No Kings marches helped us -- and no one believed that they were going to force Trump to resign or even change his behavior -- in short, they were political theater -- effective political theater. Repubs rely on political theater all the time. We're finally learning to play that game. But you have to know when to hold 'em and know when to fold 'em. And it is not -- or at least should not - be in our DNA to hurt people in a game of chicken with a bunch of terrorists that call themselves Republicans.

and which party doesn't give a flying fuck

I grew up with no stable place to live and having no electricity or water alot of the times. That being said the pain was inflicted when it was decided to force the shutdown. In the end giving in only accomplished two things one it gave credit to the republican talking point democrats were the only reason the government is closed. Two the agreement basically assures we are back here in a couple months and now Trump and the GOP know democrats don't have the heart to see the fight through when seeing the consequences of a shut down. So this time they'll ramp up the cruelty from the beginning.

It helps their troll army on the internet supress voting by saying bith parties are the same. I mean the democrats kept saying how much of a shitshow all this is and than attached their names to it. So I dont think we should vote if all we are getting is two wings of the same bird. Imagine that echoing across social media and how many young voters who may already feel apathetic are gonna do that same thing.

And Democrats should just roll over no matter what the Republicans do.

I'd respect it if such a thing were stated straightforwardly instead of endless verbose obfuscation. Look, I get it. It's not really "Surrender." It's mostly "Backwards engineer justification no matter what the people in power on my side manage."

Which is . . . not great, but I accept that some people will always explain the emperor's long and luxurious cape because courtiers gonna court.

But this twisting of loyalty to the Democratic Party resolving into giving Republicans whatever they want?

The amount of contortion required to backwards oneself into this conclusion that True Democrats Support Republican Demands - which is very much what this distills down to after throwing out all of the unnecessary text. I get why it takes several thousand words. It's a lot to accomplish.

To massacre my boy Bacon - lowering to this submission is by rather a winding stair.

I think, in the end, the shutdown very much showed who gives a fuck about people who need help and who doesn't care at all.

.... those who are making policy demands during a shutdown do not get their demands met. They may get some face-saving concessions, but that is about it. This was pointed out before the shutdown was initiated. And it is what played out.

And that this fight was not worth making ???

I think it WAS worth it--- and drew attention to the issue
at the exact time that Americans, red and blue,
are getting notices about how much the price of their health insurance
is going to go up next year, and perhaps double or more....

.... I didn't pay the price. I'm not in the "who has 40 plus days of funding in reserve to survive on" category. So I might not be the best one to ask.

The other question to ask is "what was the alternative"? The alternative would have been to draw attention to the issue during more or less normal negotiations during a more or less normal period of the continuing resolution. With the increases and lack of subsidies coming up, the issue would become more real to more people and they would experience us fighting for them without undergoing the disruption of a shutdown. That might have been a better strategy.

repeatedly. And like the OP, yours is an argument for why the Democrats should never have authorized the shutdown in the first place, not for conceding to the GOP now. None of the concessions are concessions at all. They are already in US law.

... are concessions at all. They are pretty much "face savers", not real concessions.

I'm not sure why you draw a distinction between starting a shutdown and continuing a shutdown. If it was a bad idea in the first place, it would be a bad idea in the second place, and the third, and all along. Things were not getting better for us, instead, the shutdown skeptics were being proved correct.

The same reasons for not starting down a dead end road are the same reasons for turning back once you have.

Did she say anything about this? If so, I'd be interested in what she said. Maybe you could provide a source.

Here is an assessment of the historical record from an academic:

... and is solid confirmation that shutdowns don't work.

" (the president) insisted for weeks that he wouldn’t reopen the government until (getting the funding)"

It isn't our government.

...

My party has no obligation to give their votes.

If they wanted to fund the government, nuke the filibuster. We are not in the majority. We have no hard power.

You say "bumper sticker" as though I take the statement we shouldn't govern. That statement sucks. But I don't want my party party to what is happening.

If the GOP wanted their 60 votes, they could have negotiated and dems could've gotten some pork here and there.

If you think we had a tactical victory, I just don't see it. All I see is a continued strategic failure that demonstrates that Democrats are unable to message around winning issues and stick to their values, unless their are running for mayor in NYC or equivalent.

So yeah, no bumper sticker. In fact my bumper sticker would just be "No".

you make that statement like it is the only way to avoid people being hurt by this nonsense. That's simply not true.

this is the trolley car problem. thousands of federal workers on one track and millions of people getting ACA subsidies on the other.

Subsidies people need to get treatment for cancer, and any other type of medical care, that they cannot afford now. At least the federal workers, despite being treated like absolute shit, had a light at the end of the tunnel of a paycheck at the end. All the millions of of people who lost the subsides are getting shit sandwich for thanksgiving.

But pick a track because there was no situation here where someone isn't getting run over by the trolley, so there is no moral high ground to be gained by HOPING you protected Federal workers, who drumpf might just leave fired anyway, because who's going to arrest him, Pam Bondi???????

The Democrats that voted yes, and those that voted no only because they knew it would pass, betrayed their party and their voters. We're supposed to be supporting Democrats on this board, and THIS AIN'T IT.

39 out of 47 Senators and 206 out of 213 Dems in the house opposed this (or at least voted against it...). That's 94.2% of our elected members of Congress.

The Democratic Party did NOT want this.

...which was crippling them.

If we could do that for everyone, we would. That's what our political action and advocacy against republicans is all about.

But we had this power to give these workers a break and some Dems took it, thankfully.

The politics remains, and I'm a little tired of carrying the fiction that we need to abuse these workers, using them as bait or a crutch for our political action and advocacy.

How short our memories. We cannot even remember the present.

...we can all see the history of this.

Republicans could end it anytime on their own votes, but would not consider these workers' lives or livelihoods something worth protecting or defending.

Tell me again how we were protecting those workers from harm by allowing that? I mean the workers were being harmed, right?

Did you ask them to be martyrs for your politics?

You do know that ACA tax credits are not part of the budget, right? They can be fought for, negotiated, or extended any time by republicans without using the federal workers as a dubious political crutch.

Who has responsibility for any harm done in this government?

Martyrs rarely ask permission.

by looking just at how bad one side is. As Takket explains, millions of people losing their health care, and 4 million becoming uninsured according to the CBO, was in the eyes of the majority of Senate Democrats a worse outcome then people losing their jobs and their SNAP benefits (although the later was somewhat unclear, as SNAP benefit checks had been sent out for November).

You have to tackle this head-on, that's the only way to do so with integrity. People can get new jobs, getting needed healthcare can be much more of a difficult, intractable problem.

You that certain the Supreme Court would have ruled that full payments needed to be made immediately? That the Court wouldn't have sat on the case? That they would have required payments for more than November?

If so, you are far more trusting of the Supreme Court than I am.

If Democrats were given control of the federal government, we wouldn't be talking about any of this right now.

Pretty damn wild that voters don't elect Democrats, but then want Democrats to save them from the Republicans they elected, and when Democrats can't work a miracle with no federal power whatsoever, Democrats get blamed for that as well, so let's punish Democrats at the ballot box!

What idiotic bullshit.

Idiotic bullshit that people should have learned their lesson from after 2016, but nope -- here we are, yet again.

"You get the government you deserve."

You've said it perfectly.

I feel the same way. I don’t think any of the Dem senators thought tdump would cut SNAP benefits. I think if the Supreme Court had ruled they had to be paid the Dems would not have agreed to open the government but starving people isn’t in their playbook nor should it be.

It astonishes me that the folks attacking the end of the shutdown think that there was any chance that the repubs would agree to permanently restore the enhanced ACA subsidies or, for that matter, restore them even for a more limited period without substantial revisions.

The repubs were using 42 million people reliant on SNAP, millions reliant on air travel, millions reliant on paychecks to feed their families, pay their rent and utility bills, etc. as leverage. Our option was to do the same thing. But that's not who we are, even if we believed that doing so was for a good cause -- getting the ACA subsidies restored -- something that simply had no chance of happening in the short run.

I've been attacked for expressing this view before and expect to be attack again. But I went to a Democratic victory/thank you event here in Virginia tonight for those of us who volunteered in one way or another on the campaigns in our state. And a surprisingly large number of these folks -- dedicated Democrats -- agreed that rather than proclaiming the end of the shutdown was a defeat for Democrat and a victory for repubs, we should be taking credit for getting 42 million people their SNAP payments and ensuring them for the rest of the fiscal year, for getting reimbursement for the states that put out funds from their own treasuries to fill the SNAP gap, for getting not only guaranteed funding for WIC, but increased funding, for getting federal employees their jobs back and back pay, and for ending the transportation nightmare that the republicans were foiling on the people.

Frankly, anyone who thought the Repubs would care enough about who they hurt to cave hasn't been paying attention to the repubs for as long as I can remember and certainly not for the past 10 months.

Last edited Thu Nov 13, 2025, 02:19 AM - Edit history (1)

At this point you’re just trying to stir up shit with people. It’s unpleasant.

BTW. You make an excellent argument for why the Democrats should never have fought over the shutdown in the first place, not for agreeing to open the govt at this late date. Just like you wanted, it was all for nothing. The so-called concessions, including what you reference about retroactive pay, are already in US law. Then they handed the GOP concessions on suing over the Jack Smith investigation and undermining abortion rights even further. Why would you worry about that? That only concerns us inconsequential women.

You got everything you wanted, which Is less than nothing. Just like your other hero Garland, the collaborationist 8 did exactly what you wanted. Take your win and leave it alone already.

It seems that you see other DUers as your enemies, whereas most of us are more concerned with the GOP. Why is that? It’s unfortunate you have to suffer the indignity of people disagreeing with you on a discussion board. You clearly resent it greatly.

You and I don't always agree, so I wanted to just say that. Well said.

Some people get SNAP and fly to their vacations for the low low price of millions of dead people. Seems fair trade.

So you have to take that out of the equation. So it's more like people get to fly in exchange for people dying, slashing abortion rights, and making it so no congressperson can ever be investigated again, no matter how much of a traitor they are.

The surrender is disgusting and shameful, and they'll demand a lot more in the next fight.

We need new leadership.

Who, with a functioning brain, couldn't predict, couldn't KNOW, that in this game of "chicken" the Republicans would not yield first (if at all), as they are HEARTLESS SOCIOPATHS who do not and would not CARE about ANYTHING you wrote?

All we had was the people, and November 4 showed that trust wasn't misplaced.

But three years remain, and the Republicans just took our measure.

they literally state the reasons why it was "worth starting"

that is the point of the post

You said it all far better than I've been able to.

My niece is an air traffic controller. She and her husband and two kids ages 2 and 4 live in northern Colorado. She's been working six days a week without pay. She took a day off the last week in October to see if she could get a loan to tide them over and figure out which bills they could put off paying. Some they couldn't afford to postpone. Heating and electricity is a requirement in their climate, along with food for them all. They deserve to have a Thanksgiving and Christmas. They did not volunteer to go through all of that.

I wanted to send them an e-gift card to help, but had just sent one to my disabled friend who was rationing food because she needed to save her money for rent and utilities so she wouldn't be evicted. She has only $967 a month income from SSI. Even though in Texas the amount of SNAP benefits were reduced, at least they've finally started back up.

Another large group that was suffering during the shutdown were all the government contractors. They don't get made whole during a shutdown. There's no safety net, no laws requiring back pay. They will be digging out of the hole for months. Some may lose their homes, face eviction, and even lose their marriages as loss of income is hugely stressful and that along with anxiety often results in couples cracking under the pressure.

As a retiree, my expenses are less than those of young working people. My kids are grown and have their own lives and income. Like most at our time of life, we no longer have the need to purchase lots of things, including clothing for growing children. We already have our furniture, appliances, and so forth. So we can save more easily than my niece and her husband can at their time of life. That allows us to be more resilient in a shutdown than younger adults. It would still be hard for us to go 40 days with no income, and live in that level of uncertainty and terror.

If we forget our values, like kindness, compassion, empathy, courage, truthfulness, justice and mercy under the stress caused by Trump's cruelty, we start to become like him and the MAGAs. In the work to overcome authoritarianism, it's critical to maintain the values that support democracy. That is a key point made in Timothy Snyder's On Tyranny: Twenty Lessons from the Twentieth Century: "Set a good example of what America means for the generations to come. They will need it."

Senators plotting behind the scenes. Schumer is informed about it every step of the way, but arranges votes so that no one faces the voters in the next election. All look foolish and weak.

Waste of time, energy and reputation.

I call for Schumer to step down. Actually, I've been calling it for years.

The defectors were chosen carefully. This was not an act of principle. It was a political act. It was political theater and Schumer is a poor actor.

I knew if we ended it, we would get blamed.

Trump is still at the Supreme Court trying to keep snap frozen. It wouldnt surprise me if him and the rest of his party thumb their nose at the rest. I dont think anyone wanted to see harm come to anyone but the truth is as soon as the shut down happened the harm was done there were only two choices fight and force them to fold and open the government themselves and own the consequences of it or the democrats fold and say sorry for the pain and deal with the consequences

The BIG QUESTION is whether prolonging the shutdown would have persuaded or coerced the Republicans to restore ACA subsidies:
1. In a revised Senate bill, and pass it
2. The Republican House would pass it
3. Trump would sign it, admitting defeat

We can't know for sure if that would have happened, but I think that was extremely unlikely.

WHY?

Because Republicans have been trying to kill the ACA since Obama signed it into law. Who here really thinks they would abandon that long-term goal just when they're on the cusp of achieving it?

Remember, they don't care about poor people dying for lack of healthcare. And the Orange Sociopath? Cruelty is the point.

... you think GOP is "on the cusp" of killing ACA? This was about continuing a level of subsidies that were not originally part of ACA, not killing it. If the subsidies go away, we are back to pre-pandemic subsidies. Now, that's a regression, and especially since inflation makes even maintaining the current subsidies less valuable than when they were put in place. But that isn't killing it.

But it will become less affordable, causing many people to drop their coverage.

If they COULD destroy it altogether, they WOULD.

This is but one step in achieving the larger goal.

... in the WRONG direction.

The Democrats were winning the argument, they won the elections last week and then they gave up the ghost for nothing in return.

There shouldn’t have been a shutdown at all, the result is the same.

And the “party that always delivers” is laughable. Yeah they deliver all right, for the ruling class, every time.