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The Magistrate

(96,043 posts)
8. It Will Never Do, Sir, Just To Chant The Name Of Various Fallacies At Me
Sun Apr 5, 2020, 12:21 PM
Apr 2020

There are two actual usages of 'strawman', one legitimate, the other less so.

At times, a person will state a position incoherently, or will refuse to state a position while assailing an opponent. In such cases, it is quite legitimate to make an honest attempt to decipher, or to deduce, an opponent's position, then state the result and engage it. This is certainly a legitimate usage of a 'strawman', and no fallacy at all.

The less legitimate usage is to simply create out of whole cloth a position which one would like to argue with, which does not honestly reflect an opponent's views, or at least does not much overlap with them. I suppose it is this usage you intend to convey.

What you are chanting 'strawman strawman strawman' at, however, is simply reportage. It is a description of a pattern of human behavior, commonly observed in many situations. People get through this world by employment of their faculties, by use of 'intelligence guided by experience' to understand what is going on around them. My 'intelligence guided by experience' leads me to the conclusions stated above. It does so by observation of one leading personage, and of many expressions of support for him, some which cheer him on, and others which denigrate those who do not agree and support him. It does not engage the arguments supporters present for support of him, or the arguments supporters press against those who oppose him.

While it presents an unflattering picture, unflattering pictures are not by definition false constructs, or false in any way, merely because they do not gratify someone's vanity. The evident fact you do not like some statement is not evidence it is false. Since it is a characterization of a great mass of people, even if you feel it does not apply to you, that is insufficient to demonstrate it is false.

Perhaps it is not true for you. Perhaps you have no concern whatever with how people perceive you, and expect that Sanders if elected would sweep every proposal he desires through the Congress in a twinkling, due to the great revolutionary upsurge of popular support he would rally to the streets to overawe any opposition to his sweeping programs.

That last, by the way, is a strawman. It is hoped you perceive the difference, and which sort of strawman it is I leave to you and other readers here to decide.






"When things are not called by their right names, what is said cannot make sense. When what is said does not make sense, what is planned cannot succeed. When plans do not succeed, people become uneasy. When people are uneasy, punishments do not fit crimes. When punishments do not fit crimes, people cannot know where to put hand or foot."

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

Recommendations

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I like to remind people that the root of the word "progressive" is "progress". Without that.... George II Apr 2020 #1
Thank you, George.. that's been exactly Cha Apr 2020 #34
Excellent...well done. Glad you made this an OP... Demsrule86 Apr 2020 #2
I second that! PatSeg Apr 2020 #9
Thank You, Ma'am, For Your Suggestion The Magistrate Apr 2020 #30
Thank you PatSeg Apr 2020 #32
Another straw man smashed by a Biden supporter /nt philly_bob Apr 2020 #3
instead of doing a drive by, why not refute the OP William769 Apr 2020 #5
It Will Never Do, Sir, Just To Chant The Name Of Various Fallacies At Me The Magistrate Apr 2020 #8
It is Sunday (I think) PatSeg Apr 2020 #11
The Biden/Clinton wing of the party is more identified with identity politics... philly_bob Apr 2020 #33
If That Is What You Think, Sir... The Magistrate Apr 2020 #35
This message was self-deleted by its author William769 Apr 2020 #4
I Cannot Disagree, Sir. MineralMan Apr 2020 #6
It's like how a lot of people got tattoos thinking it was hip and cool. betsuni Apr 2020 #7
I've talking those moving goalpost labels ismnotwasm Apr 2020 #10
Yes, very interesting PatSeg Apr 2020 #12
I think it was this ultimately ismnotwasm Apr 2020 #14
Mr. Biden, Ma'am, was About My Last Choice For An Acceptable Candidate The Magistrate Apr 2020 #15
Yeah, pretty much this ismnotwasm Apr 2020 #20
Yes PatSeg Apr 2020 #19
Good point ismnotwasm Apr 2020 #23
Yes, like this.... George II Apr 2020 #24
Heh! ismnotwasm Apr 2020 #25
It comes out too with the often-cited claim treestar Apr 2020 #13
It was an ugly surprise to have been called for jury service on this op. Mc Mike Apr 2020 #16
Unfortunately, Sir, It Does Not Surprise Me An Alert Was Pressed The Magistrate Apr 2020 #17
I think this is spot on. The Velveteen Ocelot Apr 2020 #18
Thank You, Ma'am The Magistrate Apr 2020 #36
You are broadbrushing all Sanders Supporters LostOne4Ever Apr 2020 #21
Then We Would Seem To Be In Substantial Agreement The Magistrate Apr 2020 #26
We are LostOne4Ever Apr 2020 #27
In 2016, Sanders supporters and the RW weaponized the term mcar Apr 2020 #22
That Was A Particularly Repellent One, Ma'am The Magistrate Apr 2020 #31
Summarizing what I just said in a similar thread BidenBacker Apr 2020 #28
Another Oldie but Goodie BidenBacker Apr 2020 #29
Latest Discussions»Retired Forums»Democratic Primaries»The 'Identity Politics' F...»Reply #8