2016 Postmortem

Warren DeMontague

(80,708 posts)

45. That's sort of my point, exactly.

Wed Nov 30, 2016, 06:45 PM

Nov 2016

Because of the GOP's knee-jerk reflexive authoritarianism, we may have an opening. But it will require shutting down the control freaks in our own ranks.

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Are we tilting at windmills re: national gun laws? [View all] geek tragedy Nov 2016 OP

We are now. Unless every single brown person in America goes out and buys some guns next week. TygrBright Nov 2016 #1

I agree bravenak Nov 2016 #3

National African American Gun Association Grey Lemercier Nov 2016 #33

there are more blacks gejohnston Nov 2016 #38

Im glad to hear this jack_krass Dec 2016 #73

JHFC does EVERYthing have to be about race?, but since you brought it up, yes jack_krass Dec 2016 #74

Dont read my posts then bravenak Dec 2016 #75

funny you mention that gejohnston Nov 2016 #37

Simple and sad truth Cosmocat Dec 2016 #94

I think so bravenak Nov 2016 #2

In Wisconsin it was a big deal forthemiddle Nov 2016 #4

Yes Amishman Nov 2016 #5

Here we go again. yallerdawg Nov 2016 #6

Quite a lot of Democrats are gun owners. Kentonio Nov 2016 #8

depends on whether one thinks we need more true believers or more evangelists. geek tragedy Nov 2016 #10

Of course - "economic policy." yallerdawg Nov 2016 #19

Interesting that you bring up evangelism, given that "gun control" appears to be a religion for many pablo_marmol Dec 2016 #113

Gun control has never been a core Democratic value. benEzra Nov 2016 #32

These days it's a core Democratic value. yallerdawg Nov 2016 #34

No, it's still not. About 50% of Dems support, and 50% oppose. benEzra Nov 2016 #39

What's with the NRA/rightwing talking points? yallerdawg Nov 2016 #44

Here's a fact from the FBI: 13,500 murders annually, all rifles *combined* account for 270. benEzra Nov 2016 #46

Guns was the issue? yallerdawg Nov 2016 #53

It was *an* issue in my state. A big one. benEzra Nov 2016 #54

If you are a Democrat... yallerdawg Nov 2016 #57

Legal gun owners have been threatened here at DU, linked to at this OP: friendly_iconoclast Dec 2016 #68

Promising to take laws like the NY SAFE Act nationwide *is* a threat. benEzra Dec 2016 #69

What's with your contempt for the facts? NT pablo_marmol Dec 2016 #115

Question is what's common sense Duckhunter935 Nov 2016 #56

The evening shift! yallerdawg Nov 2016 #58

Yep, some of us work Duckhunter935 Nov 2016 #60

I'm not playing "Twenty Questions" with you. yallerdawg Nov 2016 #61

This message was self-deleted by its author Duckhunter935 Nov 2016 #62

Maybe this one is busy shopping discntnt_irny_srcsm Dec 2016 #121

"Common sense gun reform" "Whatever Dianne Feinstein wants" derby378 Dec 2016 #104

That's not what makes me a democrat. hollowdweller Dec 2016 #77

Spot on. And THANK YOU. pablo_marmol Dec 2016 #112

That's in today's world. I come from a long line of Democrats who worked in the ... spin Dec 2016 #82

Our Sheriff recomends every homeowner be armed Kilgore Dec 2016 #102

A few years ago a judge recommended rural people in an Ohio country... spin Dec 2016 #106

In our case its not budget cuts. Kilgore Dec 2016 #107

Unfortunately even in an area with an extremely low crime rate ... spin Dec 2016 #109

It's tempting to say just put it on the back burner, but.. Kentonio Nov 2016 #7

I don't think nuance plays very well on this issue. nt geek tragedy Nov 2016 #11

I think you're right if the message you put out relies on nuance. Kentonio Nov 2016 #14

To use nuance, you have to *understand* the issue, which many in the DC/NY bubble apparently do not. benEzra Nov 2016 #63

Here's the problem with that hollowdweller Dec 2016 #79

why focus on specifically urban gun owners? gejohnston Nov 2016 #40

Best place to start would be to **STOP LYING** about "assault weapons". pablo_marmol Dec 2016 #117

Do the Right Thing frazzled Nov 2016 #9

What is wrong with the current federal gun control laws? gejohnston Nov 2016 #66

Possibly. NCTraveler Nov 2016 #12

how can we help them without winning elections? geek tragedy Nov 2016 #18

"But as long as it's a wedge issue we're really never going to make headway on that." NCTraveler Nov 2016 #20

In 2008 and 2012 guns weren't a big issue. geek tragedy Nov 2016 #23

Here is where those proposals go off the rails. benEzra Nov 2016 #43

There's no point in pushing it to the state level if SCOTUS will Exilednight Nov 2016 #13

Yes. lumberjack_jeff Nov 2016 #15

We might have got President Dumbya over that issue too. Buckeye_Democrat Nov 2016 #16

I guarantee in PA it was an issue. ebbie15644 Nov 2016 #17

Same in Ohio. Lots of gunnutters here, also. madinmaryland Nov 2016 #24

Yep. I saw a survey here a few years ago that indicated... Buckeye_Democrat Nov 2016 #25

It was a huge issue here in NC as well. (n/t) benEzra Nov 2016 #31

Absolutely Calculating Nov 2016 #21

it wasn't just Hillary's stances on guns ebbie15644 Nov 2016 #26

they were not being sued for the misuse of their products dsc Nov 2016 #29

The PLCAA doesn't block suits for criminal straw purchases, smuggling, or defective guns. benEzra Nov 2016 #30

And they were not protected from straw purchasing Duckhunter935 Nov 2016 #59

Nobody was buying "thousands of Guns at a time" and reselling them Lee-Lee Dec 2016 #72

"(G)un shops were selling thousands of guns at a time to individuals" Cite, please friendly_iconoclast Dec 2016 #87

No cite or links after a week? It's obvious that claim is bullshit... friendly_iconoclast Dec 2016 #95

yes this and the anti-abortion crowd. n/t. okieinpain Nov 2016 #22

I think it did play a part in this defeat, and I tried to talk earlier to DU about that. Yo_Mama Nov 2016 #27

Yes. The truth is, Americans simply dont want government telling them what to do. Warren DeMontague Nov 2016 #28

Americans don't like being told what to do, but they do like the government telling others what to geek tragedy Nov 2016 #36

That's sort of my point, exactly. Warren DeMontague Nov 2016 #45

our party's issue isn't so much from people trying to regulate geek tragedy Nov 2016 #48

Certainly, and I wouldn't argue that we need to do away with things like building safety or the EPA. Warren DeMontague Nov 2016 #50

not only that, gejohnston Nov 2016 #41

+1 flying rabbit Dec 2016 #96

Well there were those who sarisataka Nov 2016 #35

Disagree, I say we double-down on sensible gun control, radius777 Nov 2016 #42

Define "sensible gun control." benEzra Nov 2016 #51

Obama didn't campaign on gun control though Calculating Nov 2016 #52

Gun control is an urban/suburban (metro) issue, radius777 Nov 2016 #64

So what happens if you get your wish? benEzra Dec 2016 #71

Democrats cease to become players in national politics, that's what happens friendly_iconoclast Dec 2016 #88

Echoes of the Temperance party. (n/t) benEzra Dec 2016 #89

Agreed samir.g Dec 2016 #86

Message auto-removed Name removed Nov 2016 #47

losing elections doesn't save a single child nt geek tragedy Nov 2016 #49

Losing the election and getting no gun control at all Calculating Nov 2016 #55

windmills? that sounds so ... 2015 0rganism Nov 2016 #65

Well, more than 2.5 million more people voted for Hill than the Don, but apparently.... Hekate Nov 2016 #67

So you don't, in fact, want to ban AR-15's and over-10-round magazines? benEzra Dec 2016 #70

"You"? You are holding me responsible for the mass insanity of this nation? Do you personally want Hekate Dec 2016 #78

This message was self-deleted by its author Duckhunter935 Dec 2016 #80

This is *exactly* the type of misunderstanding that is so harmful to Dems on this issue. benEzra Dec 2016 #83

So I own military-grade weaponry. So fucking what. derby378 Dec 2016 #105

Well for the first time ever Flavius Aetius Dec 2016 #81

I don't get it then - what does an "assault weapons ban" do if it is not taking away someone's guns? jmg257 Dec 2016 #85

Irritate us about losing the election and add scant substance Kolesar Dec 2016 #76

Yep, there is. There is also a temporary forum for discussing things that hurt Dems last month... benEzra Dec 2016 #84

Yes hueymahl Dec 2016 #90

Kick. **Fantastic** OP geek tragedy! pablo_marmol Dec 2016 #91

Democrats for the last few decades have been strong on gun control and week on a social safety net killbotfactory Dec 2016 #92

This is **precisely** what liberal criminologists James Wright, Peter Rossi pablo_marmol Dec 2016 #93

The only constant is change, so I disagree that we should view this as an unsolvable issue or... CBHagman Dec 2016 #97

Change... benEzra Dec 2016 #98

Gun ownership itself is actually down quite dramatically. CBHagman Dec 2016 #99

Actually, all surveys but the non-anonymous GSS have shown steady ownership or recent increase. benEzra Dec 2016 #100

It's a civil liberties issue. MarvinGardens Dec 2016 #101

Background checks, yes. Semi-auto ban, no. Magazine ban, no. derby378 Dec 2016 #103

Yes. We can elections and save lives with "No Federal gun bans whatsoever" aikoaiko Dec 2016 #108

Kick. Great OP. NT pablo_marmol Dec 2016 #110

Are we tilting at windmills? No. We're cutting our throats. NT pablo_marmol Dec 2016 #111

LOTS of supposition here... LaydeeBug Dec 2016 #114

Hillary's position on gun control was politically naive outside of CA, NY and IL HoneyBadger Dec 2016 #116

Yes we are. Bans don't work. discntnt_irny_srcsm Dec 2016 #118

Kicking for the benefit of members who believe that gun restriction is a political winner. pablo_marmol Dec 2016 #119

Gun restrictionists have become the secular "Bible thumpers" of the Democratic Party: friendly_iconoclast Dec 2016 #120

I think probably yes, from a purely pragmatic standpoint. Crunchy Frog Dec 2016 #122

Hurts the party's efforts to win elections, it's a wedge issue that the pukes distort & capitalize FreeStateDemocrat Dec 2016 #123

Gun control for Democrats.. virginia mountainman Dec 2016 #124