2016 Postmortem

Eleanors38

(18,318 posts)

236. We still live in some semblance of a democracy, and have to act accordingly...

Wed Nov 30, 2016, 04:47 PM

Nov 2016

There are over 40,000,000 people who voted for tRump. They are part the electorate which decided against Clinton, and Democrats in most down-ballot races. See this:

WE HAVE TO DEAL WITH THEM.

The alternative is for the militants on "both" (there are surely more) sides to engage in hostilities as if this were a budding 3rd World nation bent on chronic violence and disruption. It may come to that. But why not try and build a movement, like so many here at Democratic UNDERGROUND claim they want? We are further from that option that at any time since the 60s. And that distance has been a matter of Party choice.

The Party, Democrats in general, and many folks here are out of touch; politically, socially, with our neighbors, and with technology (tRump has over 40,000,000 sniffing round his Twitter site, with nothing else close). We have become willfully ignorant of our own American culture, and as such are in no condition to launch some half-assed revolution. Even if we were ready, we STILL MUST TALK with tRump's supporters.

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If the Democratic Party decides to ignore the concerns of minority voters to get white 'Rust Belt' [View all] bravenak Nov 2016 OP

Not only that but its not making any sense, if the "rust belt" voters economies are better now uponit7771 Nov 2016 #1

Nobody really believes they have it worse but it damn sure seems to me that even democrats bravenak Nov 2016 #2

Yeap, what's the DNC message supposed to be now... we're stronger than those people!? There are uponit7771 Nov 2016 #14

It is my opinion that they bought the message of the gop because they WANTED TO bravenak Nov 2016 #15

It has been going on since before the 1980s. duffyduff Nov 2016 #95

Definitely they are willfully stupid. One can only make so many excuses for them, and then the RKP5637 Nov 2016 #102

Exactly. They know better. They just dont give a shit bravenak Nov 2016 #107

This has been going on since the DemonGoddess Nov 2016 #108

Well, some may actually believe that, but Dems can't control what others believe. Garrett78 Nov 2016 #23

I agree wholeheartedly bravenak Nov 2016 #29

But I guess my point is that a lot of Trump supporters probably do believe that. Garrett78 Nov 2016 #50

So true bravenak Nov 2016 #59

I unfortunately think it is higher than 20% who are unreachable Grey Lemercier Nov 2016 #82

Yeah, 20-25% is my conservative estimate. Garrett78 Nov 2016 #175

Absolutely. It is mostly young Sanders supporters who are suggesting this. duffyduff Nov 2016 #93

the repukes are about racism AND income inequality wordpix Nov 2016 #212

1 uponit7771 Nov 2016 #219

Because you can't walk and chew gum at the same time? davidn3600 Nov 2016 #3

hillary supported a platform that supported everyone. Trump supporters didn't want that JI7 Nov 2016 #7

yeap, EXPLICITLY get rid of them too, not some soft dog whistle shit uponit7771 Nov 2016 #9

Yeah, but calling walking riding a bike isn't making sense at all... somethings aren't fitting the uponit7771 Nov 2016 #8

Our political parties have a masterful way of adapting to changing environments davidn3600 Nov 2016 #16

it's only meaningless for those who think minority votes should not count JI7 Nov 2016 #33

No one here is saying that minority votes shouldnt count davidn3600 Nov 2016 #46

they hold on to power through a system where certain people's votes count more , it does matter that JI7 Nov 2016 #54

So what about the 35% of Latino voters in Florida that voted for Trump? davidn3600 Nov 2016 #58

they voted on Castro as they usually do and upset at Obama's opening relations with the country. JI7 Nov 2016 #60

So that happened in 2008 and 2012? Eleanors38 Nov 2016 #111

Obama bravenak Nov 2016 #120

I know. Eleanors38 Nov 2016 #124

that was before Obama opened relations with Cuba JI7 Nov 2016 #133

See Puerto Rican vote in FL. Eleanors38 Nov 2016 #135

yeah and fuck them all. i don't make excuses for them the way whites who vote JI7 Nov 2016 #139

That is one state bravenak Nov 2016 #61

exactly. another difference is we don't make excuses for minorities who vote republican JI7 Nov 2016 #137

Agreed. We give them the same sideeye we give white trump voters. Maybe even a bigger sideeye bravenak Nov 2016 #141

Point is.. JHan Nov 2016 #104

Exactly n/t Lizz612 Nov 2016 #203

You said it. The Party has grown conservative in many ways. Eleanors38 Nov 2016 #109

They are stupid and bigoted. Now they will impoverish themselves with King Trump the racist asshole. bravenak Nov 2016 #118

Well, I'm sure you are in alert-proof swagger, and I am not. But I do note an extremist... Eleanors38 Nov 2016 #131

Oh bullshit bravenak Nov 2016 #132

Thanks for the brevity. Eleanors38 Nov 2016 #225

yours is the same heaven05 Nov 2016 #186

Persistently wrong. As I have stated here and over the years we WILL deal with... Eleanors38 Nov 2016 #224

WE WILL DEAL heaven05 Nov 2016 #234

We still live in some semblance of a democracy, and have to act accordingly... Eleanors38 Nov 2016 #236

keep talking heaven05 Nov 2016 #237

Talking and acting:. I'll do both. Eleanors38 Dec 2016 #241

Who is it that really plays "identity politics?" Garrett78 Nov 2016 #10

Hi bravenak Chitown Kev Nov 2016 #4

I agree, Kev bravenak Nov 2016 #11

Good to see you, Kev. brer cat Nov 2016 #70

hi kev mopinko Nov 2016 #94

It's not either-or HassleCat Nov 2016 #5

Can we? Because it sure seem s to me that folks want us to shut up about 'identity politics' bravenak Nov 2016 #12

Maybe some people who don't really get both the practical implications of that, or what JCanete Nov 2016 #97

I don't get the resistance to accepting that some simply can't be reached. Garrett78 Nov 2016 #6

Awesome post. You have been really making alot of sense lately bravenak Nov 2016 #13

Thanks. Garrett78 Nov 2016 #24

As a white Democrat who voted for Clinton, I agree with this post Gothmog Nov 2016 #155

For the life of me, I don't know why there's resistance to that idea. Garrett78 Nov 2016 #179

If identity politics inspires POC voters ZX86 Nov 2016 #17

If only POC voters had voted Chitown Kev Nov 2016 #18

while at the same time trying to convince us that those calling for walls and banning people JI7 Nov 2016 #21

But HRC didn't win. ZX86 Nov 2016 #22

OK, you think that POC and their policy priorities Chitown Kev Nov 2016 #26

Do you think POC policy priorities ZX86 Nov 2016 #28

foreign involvement in campaigns should be called out. along with the racists who support JI7 Nov 2016 #31

Absolutely bravenak Nov 2016 #38

How does that win elections ZX86 Nov 2016 #40

by holding people accountable for what they supported . they voted trump they voted for a fucking JI7 Nov 2016 #41

How does ignoring our concerns win elections or get poc priorities implemented in policy? bravenak Nov 2016 #43

Back to my hiatus with a thought Chitown Kev Nov 2016 #51

I agree. We are taken for granted by ALL SIDES bravenak Nov 2016 #57

Hillary was loud and proud. Most progressive candidate. boston bean Nov 2016 #62

I agree bravenak Nov 2016 #66

PoC didnt vote 90% for Clinton. Trump got close to 30% of Latino votes last I saw Grey Lemercier Nov 2016 #83

my bad. boston bean Nov 2016 #87

when people get scared heaven05 Nov 2016 #187

And it is always thus. Well we knew this would happen. bravenak Nov 2016 #188

EXACTLY heaven05 Nov 2016 #191

POC DID vote but the voter suppression was apparently large wordpix Nov 2016 #215

she did get more than 2 million votes JI7 Nov 2016 #19

As with so many things, it's the GOP that does what they accuse Dems of doing (see post #10). Garrett78 Nov 2016 #25

HRC lost the election. ZX86 Nov 2016 #27

they are deplorable along with anyone who defends them . Russia, FBI involvement JI7 Nov 2016 #30

So what's plan? ZX86 Nov 2016 #35

republicans lost the last 2 elections. we see the country is full of racists . call them out JI7 Nov 2016 #42

I'm hearing a lot of rhetoric ZX86 Nov 2016 #45

See post #6. Garrett78 Nov 2016 #52

you don't solve it without calling it out and identifying it. and certainly not by lying about it JI7 Nov 2016 #55

I think we're a little beyond the calling out the racism phase. ZX86 Nov 2016 #90

It is mostly white folks who vote against their own interests BECAUSE they are racist bravenak Nov 2016 #113

Yep. Chitown Kev Nov 2016 #121

Really though, and it makes them look stupid as fuck bravenak Nov 2016 #122

I'm hearing a lot of anger but not many solutions. ZX86 Nov 2016 #145

You solve it. bravenak Nov 2016 #146

And if they think Trump is good on Trade or help them get a job they are not only racist but stupid bravenak Nov 2016 #147

Then they need to be educated. ZX86 Nov 2016 #149

Educate them then. Black folks sho is tried of all the extra work expected out of us for free bravenak Nov 2016 #151

While I appreciate the passion. ZX86 Nov 2016 #154

Too bad. We did plenty of work bravenak Nov 2016 #162

For the most part, they BlueMTexpat Nov 2016 #227

I never said that white people should prioritize POC issues Chitown Kev Nov 2016 #152

Trump is a POS. ZX86 Nov 2016 #158

And what bravenak is clearly saying is... Chitown Kev Nov 2016 #170

Environmentalists and college kids aren't the problem. Garrett78 Nov 2016 #181

what's YOUR plan? How about give to the recount effort? wordpix Nov 2016 #218

hey Troll, this is a Dem site and WE haven't conceded wordpix Nov 2016 #213

she did not lose, she's got 2 million more votes than Trump amid allegations of voter wordpix Nov 2016 #217

Voter suppression. The Rethugs specifically targeted minority voters pnwmom Nov 2016 #32

So where were the Democrats, HRC, and Obama's Justice Dept ZX86 Nov 2016 #44

The DOJ did what it could, but lost Shelby County v. Holder in a 5-4 decision. Garrett78 Nov 2016 #48

Were you watching? Lawsuits were being filed, judges were ruling, pnwmom Nov 2016 #49

Yes I've been watching. ZX86 Nov 2016 #91

Hey brave.... sheshe2 Nov 2016 #20

Nice to see you too bravenak Nov 2016 #36

Missed you sheshe2 Nov 2016 #182

I had to buy my star back bravenak Nov 2016 #183

Yes, well... sheshe2 Nov 2016 #189

Oh good! bravenak Nov 2016 #190

Thanks for speaking out, bravenak! And with such logic and eloquence. nt pnwmom Nov 2016 #34

Hey!!! Nice to see you again. bravenak Nov 2016 #37

You, too, bravenak! pnwmom Nov 2016 #39

Nor will I. Nt BainsBane Nov 2016 #47

Good bravenak Nov 2016 #64

Why is it hard to stand up for minorities as well as the working class? Bucky Nov 2016 #53

Because white voters of the working class blame minorities for their problems? bravenak Nov 2016 #63

They are being led by fear. We've been through this before, and I know you have some justified JCanete Nov 2016 #98

My solution is to stop pretending they have a point when they blame others bravenak Nov 2016 #100

That is a likely turn of events. You won't let go of people basically just being bad people and JCanete Nov 2016 #123

You are completely wrong bravenak Nov 2016 #126

I said enough of them, which is a start. That only takes like 5 percent to swing an election. JCanete Nov 2016 #128

That we can have economic justice with actually addressing the racism in the us that prevents bravenak Nov 2016 #130

Not knowing who he is or what his policies are is not rejecting them. Coates, JCanete Nov 2016 #134

This is the issue bravenak Nov 2016 #140

okay, I appreciate the conversation. If you are referring to some subset of the Sanders supporters, JCanete Nov 2016 #148

I am not sure it is the job of minorities who deal with racism to also be tasked with the superhuman bravenak Nov 2016 #150

I understand that actually. It isn't a fair burden for sure. I have never agreed with you more than JCanete Nov 2016 #153

Most black people do not expect things to get better anytime soon bravenak Nov 2016 #161

I understand your point of view, and I can only imagine the frustration. JCanete Nov 2016 #166

I just liked Hillary better. bravenak Nov 2016 #168

It isn't just racism--sexism is just as bad duffyduff Nov 2016 #167

Oh hell yeah. I heard that this year. Hillary was trying to do a mans job. Fuck them. bravenak Nov 2016 #169

I agree. There is NO place for racism and sexism in this day and age. duffyduff Nov 2016 #172

I agree. bravenak Nov 2016 #176

Did the last 50 years like not happen for you? forjusticethunders Nov 2016 #226

No. Point was we never gave them a better narrative. We started protecting corporations, JCanete Nov 2016 #229

I notice there is an attempt by some to dismiss the Popular Vote and to try to make JI7 Nov 2016 #56

Real shit. I'm ready to give up bravenak Nov 2016 #65

You are not the only one to notice that. emulatorloo Nov 2016 #195

we're the big tent. barbtries Nov 2016 #67

My bad, I'll fix it bravenak Nov 2016 #69

thanks bravenak barbtries Nov 2016 #71

No prob bravenak Nov 2016 #73

yes, agreed. nt JCanete Nov 2016 #125

Nobody on the Left plans on abandoning minority voters. DemocraticWing Nov 2016 #68

Amen, bravenak. brer cat Nov 2016 #72

Thank you, I appreciate that bravenak Nov 2016 #74

Nobody is saying that! It isn't an "either/or" question. We will do BOTH. RBInMaine Nov 2016 #75

Bullshit bravenak Nov 2016 #105

Don't worry. Democrats try to help ALL people. apcalc Nov 2016 #76

I won't vote for them either mdbl Nov 2016 #77

⬆⬆⬆This⬆⬆⬆ Stellar Nov 2016 #78

Exactly. We are on the right side of history. The way to win is not to step over to the wrong Squinch Nov 2016 #96

Agreed treestar Nov 2016 #103

I'm sick of it too and I wont help dems help republicans bravenak Nov 2016 #142

Reagan rust-busters in rural America are code for ucrdem Nov 2016 #79

absolutely agree! Grey Lemercier Nov 2016 #80

It's actually bigoted to assume that all white voters in the rust belt are racists NoGoodNamesLeft Nov 2016 #81

Your view is lost in the winds of recrimination and static Party conservatism... Eleanors38 Nov 2016 #112

no trump is the one who campaigned trashing other groups and they voted for that JI7 Nov 2016 #160

Many did. Many were just tired of Hillary. Many were sick of both parties... Eleanors38 Nov 2016 #221

it means they don't care for rights of other people JI7 Nov 2016 #222

Thank you for this... TCJ70 Nov 2016 #193

You're stuffing words in the OP's mouth she didn't say. emulatorloo Nov 2016 #197

I'll be direct: Racist whites will be communicated with if the Party is to achieve viability. Eleanors38 Nov 2016 #223

I assumed that folks voting for a racist asshole are also racist assholes. bravenak Nov 2016 #115

Not all white voters in the rust belt voted for Trump. gollygee Nov 2016 #127

What do you call a voter that embraces a candidate .... etherealtruth Nov 2016 #129

it's bigoted to think some who votes for an openly bigot whose main campaign theme JI7 Nov 2016 #159

She specifically wrote about "getting" back voters we lost to the racist shit bag - not all white bettyellen Nov 2016 #164

"false context": you nailed it emulatorloo Nov 2016 #198

When you notice this, you can't stop seeing it everywhere .... bettyellen Nov 2016 #201

1 Dems to Win Nov 2016 #177

Please reread reply # 46 which spells out how much the Democratic Party has recently lost. democrank Nov 2016 #84

My friend, I fear Uponthegears Nov 2016 #85

I pretty much agree with you bravenak Nov 2016 #110

Could. Not. Agree. With. You. More!!! InAbLuEsTaTe Nov 2016 #86

Great post Gothmog Nov 2016 #88

Well Bravenek ismnotwasm Nov 2016 #89

That bus ran over damn near ever democrat this year. It was shameful as hell bravenak Nov 2016 #101

Enough is enough pandering to white GOP men duffyduff Nov 2016 #92

Thank you bravenak Nov 2016 #106

I agree treestar Nov 2016 #99

I've said it before, and I'll say it again DemonGoddess Nov 2016 #114

I agree with you bravenak Nov 2016 #116

As sister to a Muslim woman DemonGoddess Nov 2016 #117

Yes they will bravenak Nov 2016 #119

We can still build on it, brave DemonGoddess Nov 2016 #136

I still see this as the last gasp of the old guard bravenak Nov 2016 #143

EXACTLY DemonGoddess Nov 2016 #171

This white lady agrees with you mcar Nov 2016 #138

Hey! bravenak Nov 2016 #144

It Worked in 1992 kebob Nov 2016 #156

It wont ever work again bravenak Nov 2016 #163

This white Rust Belt voter agrees with you! gollygee Nov 2016 #157

Seriously. Kinda hurtful to see folks making excuses for that crap and crying about identity politic bravenak Nov 2016 #165

Between you and me emulatorloo Nov 2016 #199

And they never ever run out of stupid stuff to say bravenak Nov 2016 #200

Scrapping free trade deals helps EVERYONE jake335544 Nov 2016 #173

I've been liquid diamond Nov 2016 #174

Nazi sympathizers. lonestarnot Nov 2016 #178

I have been feeling pretty much the same as you bravenak Nov 2016 #180

if they are a "working class" that wants to work but can't find jobs wordpix Nov 2016 #216

democratic 'consultants' need to be fired. they don't know shit. we have our own DC bubble. pansypoo53219 Nov 2016 #184

Probably. But they wont be. bravenak Nov 2016 #185

I don't see ANYONE proposing BlueProgressive Nov 2016 #192

I do bravenak Nov 2016 #194

Pandering in politics is unfortunate and counter-productive over time. PufPuf23 Nov 2016 #196

Why don't you think the Dems can do both at the same time? napi21 Nov 2016 #202

I dont think we can do both bravenak Nov 2016 #204

I completely agree with you on the racist issue, but not the workers in the rust belt. napi21 Nov 2016 #207

Damn this post is good bravenak Nov 2016 #208

You only need a few of those rust belt people to flip though. Lucky Luciano Nov 2016 #205

They few that will flip, already have buyers remorse and are pretending that they never voted Trump bravenak Nov 2016 #206

Well I think we are well and truly fucked as a party til 2044. yodermon Nov 2016 #210

I think so too bravenak Nov 2016 #211

Please stop listining to people who want to Divide us along racial lines (ie the OP) jack_krass Nov 2016 #233

Remember - only a few flipped to the fuhrer. The real fight for the fence sitters is over a small.. Lucky Luciano Nov 2016 #220

No reason to worry about that they will ignore them for the regular reasons TheKentuckian Nov 2016 #209

Truth. nt LexVegas Nov 2016 #214

agreed. n/t. okieinpain Nov 2016 #228

Democrats aren't going to get those voters anyway! get the red out Nov 2016 #230

Do you think that no "white 'Rust Belt' voters" supported Clinton in the election? David__77 Nov 2016 #232

Not what I meant get the red out Nov 2016 #235

What is meant by getting "white 'Rust Belt' voters"? David__77 Nov 2016 #231

You're doing exactly what Republicans want. Oneironaut Nov 2016 #238

Dont care. I refuse to myself pander to people who think deporting millions of muslims is awesome bravenak Nov 2016 #240

Message auto-removed Name removed Nov 2016 #239