Gun Control & RKBA

discntnt_irny_srcsm

(18,692 posts)

27. re: "Who grants rights?"

Mon Feb 26, 2018, 02:59 PM

Feb 2018

No one. It is a foundational principle of the US that rights are native to the people. Any group who is able, is free to found a nation on an alternative principle.

My point is, rewriting some part of the Declaration, Constitution or Bill of Rights may require a new convention and may be viewed by many as the foundation of a new and different country. The Founders foresaw this possible exact need and made provisions for it.

From the Declaration: "...That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness."

Since governments occasionally resist being abolished, the Founders made another provision.

From the Bill of Rights: "A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."

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The 2A has been written by men and can just as easily be deleted by men. It's no biggie. [View all] DetlefK Feb 2018 OP

And 2A does not trump all other rights MaryMagdaline Feb 2018 #1

So can the First. MichMary Feb 2018 #2

Our Rights Aren't Granted by Humans Abnredleg Feb 2018 #3

Who said that there are natural, unalienable rights??????? DetlefK Feb 2018 #5

So There are No Universal Human Rights? Abnredleg Feb 2018 #6

Where were these human rights when we had slavery? DetlefK Feb 2018 #12

Switzerland. Straw Man Feb 2018 #15

Good analogy. What rights did slaves have until the slave holders were forced to live under NEW laws Fred Sanders Feb 2018 #26

John Locke gejohnston Feb 2018 #7

Kinda' broad there don't ya think? Like me saying gunners are right flamin lib Feb 2018 #18

When it comes to arguing based on facts, reason and evidence gejohnston Feb 2018 #33

Logical fallacies like the broad brush fallacy which is what you flamin lib Feb 2018 #48

Thing is, gejohnston Feb 2018 #50

Ya just can't give up that big ole wide fallacious brush can ya. flamin lib Feb 2018 #51

Any logical process begin adopting axioms discntnt_irny_srcsm Feb 2018 #29

The right to own an AR15 is a natural, unalienable right? HopeAgain Feb 2018 #9

That's Not What I Said Abnredleg Feb 2018 #10

You did say the 2nd is a natural, inlienable right HopeAgain Feb 2018 #11

I'm Arguing that the Right to Self Defense Abnredleg Feb 2018 #16

But by having it listed as such a right HopeAgain Feb 2018 #17

How Does the Nature of a Right Change? Abnredleg Feb 2018 #19

Guess that's were we differ HopeAgain Feb 2018 #20

I'd like you to reflect melm00se Feb 2018 #22

to what end? HopeAgain Feb 2018 #23

it addresses melm00se Feb 2018 #24

Gun people should see with these Parkland kids HopeAgain Feb 2018 #25

"We just want to ban assault weapons." yagotme Mar 2018 #89

God doesn't exist. Hope this helps. AtheistCrusader May 2020 #98

God did not create guns. Sophia4 Feb 2018 #31

I'm Arguing that the Right to Defend One's Self Abnredleg Feb 2018 #32

If AR-15s are illegal, you defend yourself without one. Sophia4 Feb 2018 #34

I don't have any problems with an AWB Abnredleg Feb 2018 #37

Right. Sophia4 Feb 2018 #39

Yes - Right Abnredleg Feb 2018 #40

Hold on a minute ... Straw Man Feb 2018 #56

All you need is 38 states to agree. hack89 Feb 2018 #4

Yeah, I remember when the ERA was being debated in the GA legislature CozyMystery Feb 2018 #60

So people really have no rights? sarisataka Feb 2018 #8

Let me ask you a counter-question: DetlefK Feb 2018 #13

People have any right they choose to take for themselves. Decoy of Fenris Feb 2018 #14

Let's go to the top sarisataka Feb 2018 #21

The most fundamental of all rights is the right of a living person to continue living Sophia4 Feb 2018 #35

I think you need to address the OP sarisataka Feb 2018 #43

Write to the NRA in support of licenses for gun owners and insurance policies on all Sophia4 Feb 2018 #44

Those are some things to work with sarisataka Feb 2018 #45

I'm sorry about your cousin. Sophia4 Feb 2018 #53

Minnesota sarisataka Feb 2018 #64

I did not address high-powered weapon sarisataka Feb 2018 #46

I wrote another post on the topic of technological understanding of guns stating Sophia4 Feb 2018 #54

Hitting the same notes, I see. Straw Man Feb 2018 #57

And of course you will argue for the same laws for automobiles. oneshooter Feb 2018 #47

Yes. Personally, I don't like to drive, but I live in a city in which I have to drive. Sophia4 Feb 2018 #55

Since you do drive "and I would be relieved of the burden of driving." oneshooter Feb 2018 #65

We all pay for them when we buy automobiles and automobile insurance. Sophia4 Feb 2018 #66

Your insurance will not pay if you oneshooter Feb 2018 #67

Well ... Straw Man Feb 2018 #58

Message auto-removed Name removed Apr 2020 #91

I'm getting the pop corn out. प्रिया ? marble falls Apr 2020 #92

. sarisataka Apr 2020 #93

Want some pop-corn? Lotsa butter and salt! marble falls Apr 2020 #94

Yum, I brought drinks sarisataka Apr 2020 #95

That was short and sa-weet. We had popcorn and she had pizza! ... marble falls Apr 2020 #96

re: "Who grants rights?" discntnt_irny_srcsm Feb 2018 #27

The right of innocent victims of people exercising their Second Amendment right Sophia4 Feb 2018 #36

Oy. Straw Man Feb 2018 #59

The right to life is above most everything discntnt_irny_srcsm Feb 2018 #61

We ourselves grant rights to ourselves and others. DetlefK Feb 2018 #63

Clarification discntnt_irny_srcsm Feb 2018 #68

But how do we know what's a right and what's not a right? DetlefK Feb 2018 #84

The US was founded on the idea that people have rights discntnt_irny_srcsm Feb 2018 #85

While we are amending the Constitution, could we elect the president by popular vote Sophia4 Feb 2018 #28

That is exactly why the electoral college exists Always Right Feb 2018 #30

The majority of the people should rule this country. Sophia4 Feb 2018 #38

An easier path. MarvinGardens Feb 2018 #41

Good idea, but the president should represent us all. Sophia4 Feb 2018 #42

Perhaps we should return to plan of the Founders discntnt_irny_srcsm Feb 2018 #69

The government should represent the people. Sophia4 Feb 2018 #70

Maybe but I'd rather not discntnt_irny_srcsm Feb 2018 #71

I'm in California. Trump would not be president if my vote counted the same as Sophia4 Feb 2018 #74

there is a reason why modern republics have federal systems gejohnston Feb 2018 #72

I am asking that my vote as a Californian count as much in presidential elections Sophia4 Feb 2018 #73

I agree with the Founders vison gejohnston Feb 2018 #75

No one from Southern California is in the Senate. Sophia4 Feb 2018 #76

I was speaking of the state level gejohnston Feb 2018 #77

I understand. But the huge population of Southern California is now without Sophia4 Feb 2018 #78

so? gejohnston Feb 2018 #79

Senators represent the people of the area they represent. They don't represent the Sophia4 Feb 2018 #80

Actually, they don't represent you at all. gejohnston Feb 2018 #81

Probably true in reality, but on some issues, the parties/ideologies and various Sophia4 Feb 2018 #82

The guy that ran against Cheney's daughter gejohnston Feb 2018 #83

Just to explain discntnt_irny_srcsm Feb 2018 #86

The states remain states. They have their own state laws, courts, Constitutions. Sophia4 Feb 2018 #87

Bravo! discntnt_irny_srcsm Mar 2018 #88

The Second Amendment may be eventually deleted ... spin Feb 2018 #49

I think women should take this on. We men have fucked up enough. pangaia Feb 2018 #52

No answers? discntnt_irny_srcsm Feb 2018 #62

You may need to aim your sites a little lower. aikoaiko Mar 2018 #90

re: "It's no biggie." & "Rewriting a constitution...that's actually not that big of a deal." discntnt_irny_srcsm Apr 2020 #97