Gun Control & RKBA

petronius

(26,692 posts)

40. I agree with you on 3 and 4 (and those are the reasons that a pro-registration person

Reply to discntnt_irny_srcsm (Reply #23)

Mon Dec 26, 2016, 04:36 PM

Dec 2016

would never say out loud anyway). Bus as for #1 and #2:

1) Anyone becoming a prohibited person should have recourse to the finding and prohibition. (Due process, etc.)

Yes of course, but that's beside the point of this topic. The question is what happens after someone becomes 'prohibited' via the legal process. And therefore,

Thus, an ample reason for a warrant to search your home and vehicles shouldn't be a problem. Shouldn't this be SOP for everyone on becoming a prohibited person?

absolutely not! There are reasons for becoming prohibited that in no way support probable cause for a search, and even those reasons that are criminal do not necessarily justify a search warrant, just on the chance that a person might be armed.

2) UBC enforcement would be no more effective than laws against stealing firearms. I infer that the objective of a UBC would be to prevent prohibited persons from gaining the possession of a gun. Enlisting the support of existing gun owners by making the UBC a free or nearly free exercise which could be conducted at a local law enforcement location on a voluntary basis would likely have better results than some heavy handed enforcement plan.

People obey laws for two reasons, I'd say: because it's the right thing to do, and fear of punishment. Registration would increase the likelihood that a non-BC transfer would be detected. And so, it would arguably increase the level of compliance with a UBC law (without interfering with any other methods to encourage compliance). And yes, it all should be free and easy.

So, I'd say that #1 and #2 are legitimate and positive reasons to support registration. Whether they justify the expense and effort of a registration system is rather doubtful, but that's not the question you asked...

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Why registration? What is gained by having a list of guns and owners? [View all] discntnt_irny_srcsm Dec 2016 OP

When a shooting occurs metroins Dec 2016 #1

Respectfully, you seem to be arguing both sides of the issue (n/t) PJMcK Dec 2016 #5

Is there anything wrong with that? metroins Dec 2016 #28

In manyt cases the police haved a bigger avantage since wwhen you register a gun, the serial # napi21 Dec 2016 #76

The problem is criminals tend to steal guns and not register them Johnathan146 Dec 2016 #11

I think you should be civilly liable for a stolen firearm metroins Dec 2016 #29

Got stats with crimes using stolen guns? rickford66 Dec 2016 #30

It's up to the owner to notify the police if their weapon is stolen. If the owner didn't bother to napi21 Dec 2016 #77

The vehicle v firearm registration analogy is weak for a number of reasons discntnt_irny_srcsm Dec 2016 #18

That's how it works on TV gejohnston Dec 2016 #22

For some folks... discntnt_irny_srcsm Dec 2016 #62

Why registration? when trump gets ready to take your guns he will have a list. stonecutter357 Dec 2016 #2

Why dodge the question? discntnt_irny_srcsm Dec 2016 #19

seems legit ! stonecutter357 Dec 2016 #53

Because people fear government intrusion into their lives HoneyBadger Dec 2016 #3

Please see my response #4 below (n/t) PJMcK Dec 2016 #6

Aren't other devices registered? PJMcK Dec 2016 #4

Not all cars are registered Johnathan146 Dec 2016 #12

I have an exception. rickford66 Dec 2016 #31

The title is a bit different Johnathan146 Dec 2016 #37

Without this procedure, I cicn't legally own it. rickford66 Dec 2016 #55

I guess where you live thats the case Johnathan146 Dec 2016 #59

I'm in New York rickford66 Dec 2016 #63

buying a car titled out of state is likely difficult everywhere discntnt_irny_srcsm Dec 2016 #65

In FL, no registration for "grove trucks" which live on the farm... Eleanors38 Dec 2016 #73

Yes. discntnt_irny_srcsm Dec 2016 #25

It makes it easier to round up X or Y after being banned. ileus Dec 2016 #7

By the same token... discntnt_irny_srcsm Dec 2016 #26

Trump does not need a list safeinOhio Dec 2016 #8

Most gun owners do not belong to the NRA (n/t) PJMcK Dec 2016 #9

Only 5 million safeinOhio Dec 2016 #10

Sounds about right PJMcK Dec 2016 #13

We can generalize, polls confirm, safeinOhio Dec 2016 #14

Yet, universal infringements failed in Maine... Kang Colby Dec 2016 #70

Military type... Puha Ekapi_2 Dec 2016 #15

No safeinOhio Dec 2016 #16

I own... Puha Ekapi_2 Dec 2016 #17

JFK was a life member n/t discntnt_irny_srcsm Dec 2016 #79

The NRA didn't become crazy until the late 60s safeinOhio Dec 2016 #81

Not the question discntnt_irny_srcsm Dec 2016 #27

I would say there are four 'arguments in favor of' or 'reasons for' registration: petronius Dec 2016 #20

Thoughts on those 4 discntnt_irny_srcsm Dec 2016 #23

I agree with you on 3 and 4 (and those are the reasons that a pro-registration person petronius Dec 2016 #40

re: "There are reasons for becoming prohibited that in no way support probable cause for a search" discntnt_irny_srcsm Dec 2016 #45

Looking at the federal list of prohibited persons, petronius Dec 2016 #56

I can agree there discntnt_irny_srcsm Dec 2016 #60

Let's see Uponthegears Dec 2016 #21

straw purchases and racists discntnt_irny_srcsm Dec 2016 #33

Wow, this is astoundingly misleading. Uponthegears Dec 2016 #38

misleading discntnt_irny_srcsm Dec 2016 #41

Guns are tools Uponthegears Dec 2016 #47

"...they are the key to maintaining a power they forged on the backs of the enslaved." discntnt_irny_srcsm Dec 2016 #48

Once or twice a year I will buy small collections. oneshooter Dec 2016 #64

As you said Uponthegears Dec 2016 #66

Registration is addressed in the Florida state statutes. ... spin Dec 2016 #24

I couldn't have said it better discntnt_irny_srcsm Dec 2016 #35

Exactly. (n/t) spin Dec 2016 #57

Are there still people here MFM008 Dec 2016 #32

Still??? discntnt_irny_srcsm Dec 2016 #34

Are there still people here pablo_marmol Dec 2016 #36

Are there still people here... Eleanors38 Dec 2016 #54

I'd prefer ID for all bullet sales, with the bullet projectiles laser-etched. Buckeye_Democrat Dec 2016 #39

Ummm... discntnt_irny_srcsm Dec 2016 #42

I can't read your mind. n/t Buckeye_Democrat Dec 2016 #43

I'm speechless that you consider it feasible to... discntnt_irny_srcsm Dec 2016 #46

Why? Incredible amounts of data can be stored and transmitted now. Buckeye_Democrat Dec 2016 #49

I guess but... discntnt_irny_srcsm Dec 2016 #50

I think most shooting deaths are crimes of passion, or not well planned. Buckeye_Democrat Dec 2016 #51

I'm not arguing that the determined and skilled won't find ways around anything discntnt_irny_srcsm Dec 2016 #58

I prefer to see how forensics experts view it after it is gejohnston Dec 2016 #44

I don't see see the utility in registration, either. Eleanors38 Dec 2016 #52

This is the ONLY use for Registration.. virginia mountainman Dec 2016 #61

I don't think anyone is claiming Uponthegears Dec 2016 #67

I don't think he is claiming yagotme Dec 2016 #68

Don't want to shock y'all Uponthegears Dec 2016 #69

Massachusetts not Maryland. n/t Kang Colby Dec 2016 #71

Thanks. Knew it started with an "M". yagotme Dec 2016 #72

This thread is an example of a reasoned, respectul discussion. Congrats all! Eleanors38 Dec 2016 #74

The reason I can see is to make UBC more effective, and so cut down on straw purchases. jmg257 Dec 2016 #75

How would it cut down on straw purchases? discntnt_irny_srcsm Dec 2016 #80

False Comparison Fallacy J_William_Ryan Dec 2016 #78