Gun Control & RKBA

guillaumeb

(42,649 posts)

18. Advocates for concealed and open carry make the point

Reply to friendly_iconoclast (Reply #16)

Fri Nov 20, 2015, 08:54 PM

Nov 2015

that such action will somehow deter criminals. That this notion has no way of being proven does not matter. It is simply used to justify the carrying of guns.

Given that 10s of thousands of people die from gun violence every year in the US, the logical position to take would be that regulation and restriction of carrying weapons would be the response. Such regulation and restriction works in other countries. but gun rights advocates talk about American exceptionalism and supposed rights based on a deliberate misreading of the Constitution by the Roberts' SCOTUS.

If ISIS was killing thousands of Americans each year the outcry would be deafening.

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"Concealed carry shootings now part of Chicago's gun reality" [View all] DonP Nov 2015 OP

Since you asked so nicely: guillaumeb Nov 2015 #1

What evidence is there hat the shooter Snobblevitch Nov 2015 #2

Now you went and did it. beevul Nov 2015 #3

Nice graphic. eom guillaumeb Nov 2015 #5

Why did you not ask about the fleeing suspects? guillaumeb Nov 2015 #6

Because the thread was about people CCing legally, and you produced no evidence... friendly_iconoclast Nov 2015 #8

The issue for many here is that when untrained, or minimally trained guillaumeb Nov 2015 #9

Which would be relevant, if that what was happened in the OP- but it didn't friendly_iconoclast Nov 2015 #11

BTW, I agree with Hendricks on training, and have no problem with training requirements... friendly_iconoclast Nov 2015 #14

see my post #12 eom guillaumeb Nov 2015 #13

Your post #12 advocates collective guilt, an unattractive notion on a progressive site friendly_iconoclast Nov 2015 #15

What is progressive about the notion that Americans should all be carrying a gun guillaumeb Nov 2015 #17

When someone *actually makes* the argument "that Americans should all be carrying a gun",... friendly_iconoclast Nov 2015 #19

I suggest that you read post #12. eom guillaumeb Nov 2015 #20

I did. A few examples still do not prove that the many are dangerous friendly_iconoclast Nov 2015 #26

I hate to bring this up, but I am glad you mentioned Trump. guillaumeb Nov 2015 #29

"He attempts to blow up isolated incidents into a massive problem to accomplish his goal." friendly_iconoclast Nov 2015 #31

Ouch! That's gonna leave a mark DonP Nov 2015 #36

I am attempting to counter NRA inspired propaganda with reason. guillaumeb Nov 2015 #37

"This post was quite obviously put here to justify concealed and open carry as being crime... friendly_iconoclast Nov 2015 #43

I agree LinneaTench Nov 2015 #57

In todays day and age there's really no excuse for not carrying in most areas. ileus Nov 2015 #4

What day and age are you referring to? The 1860s in the US frontier? guillaumeb Nov 2015 #7

How about the 2010s in Massachusetts? 318,000 people have carry permits here, as of last year friendly_iconoclast Nov 2015 #10

Just one example of why untrained people should not be carrying guns: guillaumeb Nov 2015 #12

"It is...this type of incident that makes a strong case for an absolute ban on concealed carry by... friendly_iconoclast Nov 2015 #16

Advocates for concealed and open carry make the point guillaumeb Nov 2015 #18

Are 10s of thousands of Americans killed each year Snobblevitch Nov 2015 #21

This is what I actually wrote: guillaumeb Nov 2015 #22

If they aren't statistically dangerous, there's no problem. Since you're not Secretary of Needs... friendly_iconoclast Nov 2015 #24

They are not "statistically dangerous" unless or until they become so. eom guillaumeb Nov 2015 #28

Much as anyone else, to be sure... friendly_iconoclast Nov 2015 #34

This is what I read. Snobblevitch Nov 2015 #25

Yep TeddyR Nov 2015 #35

I think law enforecement and prosecutors need to Snobblevitch Nov 2015 #46

One thing that *can* be proven, however- the number of legal CCers that commit crimes friendly_iconoclast Nov 2015 #23

From the statistics: guillaumeb Nov 2015 #27

now compare CHL holder to cop gejohnston Nov 2015 #30

He attempts to blow up isolated incidents into a massive problem to accomplish his goal... friendly_iconoclast Nov 2015 #33

Civilian carry is touted by the NRA and others as being a crime preventative. guillaumeb Nov 2015 #38

It wasn't the NRA, it was some academic gejohnston Nov 2015 #40

Uh, no, actually. CCW is for self-defense, not for affecting social policy... Eleanors38 Nov 2015 #47

Or to confer the illusion of self defense. guillaumeb Nov 2015 #49

That choice is for individuals to make for themselves friendly_iconoclast Nov 2015 #50

"Little or (no) demonstrable effect"? guillaumeb Nov 2015 #51

We are talking of licensed concealed carry. Your '30,000' includes *all* guns, and suicides friendly_iconoclast Nov 2015 #52

Death due to guns is still death whether the user is licensed ot not. guillaumeb Nov 2015 #53

Good for you, that's your choice to make ... DonP Nov 2015 #54

That would be relevant only if the licensed are held responsible for the acts of the unlicensed friendly_iconoclast Nov 2015 #55

Fear & death: Always a profitable industry in any sector... Eleanors38 Nov 2015 #56

3 murders and 158 total convictions out of a group of 708,048 people friendly_iconoclast Nov 2015 #32

And this means: guillaumeb Nov 2015 #39

legal gun carriers are more law abiding than average gejohnston Nov 2015 #41

It was a good "solution" for the man in the OP ... DonP Nov 2015 #42

I fear you have been done a great disservice in the past friendly_iconoclast Nov 2015 #44

Or that "I declare *this* practice to be unnecessary" = "*This* practice should be made illegal"... friendly_iconoclast Nov 2015 #45

Links to improbable storm of stories and ads; only a pic of a man & story title. Eleanors38 Nov 2015 #48