Gun Control & RKBA

Straw Man

(6,911 posts)

87. Clarification.

Thu Oct 29, 2015, 01:46 PM

Oct 2015

You cited homicide rates vs. cancer death rates. Homicide rates are not a reliable indicator of the need for self-defense.

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This message was self-deleted by its author [View all] guillaumeb Oct 2015 OP

I have been saying this forever. As I equally have been saying how INSANE it is we have randys1 Oct 2015 #1

There is a proposal in Illinois to automatically register anyone who signs up for a Driver's guillaumeb Oct 2015 #3

California just did that I think. randys1 Oct 2015 #4

Off topic but on target. guillaumeb Oct 2015 #5

Election fraud, is what cons do, and they do it in every single election they have a candidate. OT randys1 Oct 2015 #6

Also from the article: guillaumeb Oct 2015 #2

Yet the founding fathers, as Englishmen, enjoyed an individual right to bear arms hack89 Oct 2015 #7

The article is by Cass Sunstein. guillaumeb Oct 2015 #8

The Bill of Rights is a list of individual rights. Period. End of conversation. hack89 Oct 2015 #9

There are no unlimited rights. Even in the Heller decision, the SCOTUS guillaumeb Oct 2015 #13

Never said the 2A was unlimited. Nt hack89 Oct 2015 #23

Indeed. There are no communal or states' rights, only individual rights. Eleanors38 Oct 2015 #26

In my opinion, the problem with the misinterpretation is because people don't understand the Ghost in the Machine Oct 2015 #12

Care to fill us in more on "centuries of precedent"? dairydog91 Oct 2015 #10

cherry picking is an NRA specialty, especially when they make claims about how guns make guillaumeb Oct 2015 #14

Changing the language to "uniform understanding" doesn't seem relevant. dairydog91 Oct 2015 #18

Umm, Heller was not spearheaded by the NRA; in fact, they dragged along later... Eleanors38 Oct 2015 #27

The lawyer behind the Heller suit... PoliticAverse Oct 2015 #53

Let me help you with this.. virginia mountainman Oct 2015 #11

Nice picture. I wish I knew how to include pictures in my posts. guillaumeb Oct 2015 #15

it meant well functioning gejohnston Oct 2015 #16

Do yuo have anything to back up your interpretation of well regulated guillaumeb Oct 2015 #17

which has nothing to do with the US gejohnston Oct 2015 #20

More help... virginia mountainman Oct 2015 #22

breakfast amendment FAIL jimmy the one Oct 2015 #29

See Rose's "American Rifle: A Biography" for primary documentation... Eleanors38 Oct 2015 #28

To you, all all here who insist that all US residents are part of this "well regulated militia" guillaumeb Oct 2015 #30

To both your questions: No. Eleanors38 Oct 2015 #41

Why, yes, I do... tortoise1956 Oct 2015 #62

You might wish to look at Article 8 of the US Constitution, especially the clauses relating to a guillaumeb Oct 2015 #65

Section 8, actually... tortoise1956 Oct 2015 #67

And the Militia Acts of 1792, jmg257 Oct 2015 #73

Hamilton did...in Federalist #29 jmg257 Oct 2015 #72

And also consider this -- well-reguluated as an adj modifies militia and not the people. aikoaiko Nov 2015 #103

Your citations are interesting, but the Second Amendment and guillaumeb Nov 2015 #104

And Heller is now being used as a way to limit the right jmg257 Nov 2015 #106

The "law of unintended consequences"? eom guillaumeb Nov 2015 #108

Or "be careful what you wish for"! nt jmg257 Nov 2015 #113

Adding pictures is pretty easy. GGJohn Oct 2015 #21

Thanks. I did not realize that cut and paste worked in this context. guillaumeb Oct 2015 #31

Glad to be of help. GGJohn Oct 2015 #34

What part of "well regulated" don't YOU understand? Lurks Often Oct 2015 #25

An excellent question always deserves an excellent answer. guillaumeb Oct 2015 #32

How very nice of you to duck the "well regulated" part Lurks Often Oct 2015 #33

And I find no merit in the NRA view. guillaumeb Oct 2015 #35

I am struck by your repeated use of NRA "view" & "talking point." They aren't the only... Eleanors38 Oct 2015 #43

your views, and my views, represent our personal opinions. guillaumeb Oct 2015 #46

President Obama & the Democratic Party have stated the 2nd Amendment is an individual right Lurks Often Oct 2015 #51

Plenty of conservatives want to reduce or eliminate a civil liberty or two aikoaiko Oct 2015 #19

I find it hard to believe individuals didn't own guns until 2008. ileus Oct 2015 #24

I find this statement to be either uninformed or deliberately obtuse. Or possibly sarcasm? guillaumeb Oct 2015 #36

Well, it didn't take long to be expressed. Eleanors38 Oct 2015 #44

alan dershowitz pro militia jimmy the one Oct 2015 #37

alan dershowitz pro torture friendly_iconoclast Oct 2015 #39

A very nice response, but rather than the word miscomception I prefer guillaumeb Oct 2015 #47

militia centric jimmy the one Oct 2015 #52

I grounded my argument in the militia view because it corresponds to the Constitution and guillaumeb Oct 2015 #54

Sad thing is some folks buy into this BS. ileus Oct 2015 #38

...and demand the rest of us agree with them friendly_iconoclast Oct 2015 #40

2ndA was NOT an english individual rkba jimmy the one Oct 2015 #42

Exactly. guillaumeb Oct 2015 #48

you want stars & bars back too? jimmy the one Oct 2015 #45

Another great response. guillaumeb Oct 2015 #49

get a load of lurkso's source jimmy the one Oct 2015 #50

Remember when William Clinton attempted to defend his lies guillaumeb Oct 2015 #56

well regulated AND disciplined jimmy the one Oct 2015 #60

From the Constitution: guillaumeb Oct 2015 #61

individual rkba a corollary to militia clause jimmy the one Oct 2015 #55

There is even more to consider: guillaumeb Oct 2015 #57

You didn't mention the recreation of "the Militias of the Several States", jmg257 Oct 2015 #82

A very interresting point. guillaumeb Oct 2015 #84

Correct! A large standing Army-the very thing the militia clauses and the 2nd was trying to prevent! jmg257 Oct 2015 #86

I believe William Rawle... tortoise1956 Oct 2015 #63

Be prepared for a snarky remark from JTO, GGJohn Oct 2015 #64

Any chance you'd like to visit a casino? beevul Oct 2015 #69

LOL. GGJohn Oct 2015 #70

Rawle, Story, Oliver on 2ndA jimmy the one Oct 2015 #66

Interesting reply tortoise1956 Oct 2015 #68

not a lone voice, but irkba has 'no voice' jimmy the one Oct 2015 #71

Not the case tortoise1956 Oct 2015 #74

story rawle & tucker were militia believers jimmy the one Nov 2015 #90

Actually, I'm quoting Justice Stevens about the individual right tortoise1956 Nov 2015 #92

Consider that according to... discntnt_irny_srcsm Nov 2015 #93

I agree, but tortoise1956 Nov 2015 #94

It is plain from the various Militia Acts from 1792 to 1903... discntnt_irny_srcsm Nov 2015 #95

Yes - but times change, as do the laws, and notions of what is necessary... jmg257 Nov 2015 #96

Numerous times the usage "well regulated" has been discussed... discntnt_irny_srcsm Nov 2015 #97

heller dissent on 2ndA did not claim individual rkba jimmy the one Nov 2015 #98

Ahem. "Surely it protects a right that can be enforced by individuals." friendly_iconoclast Nov 2015 #99

iconic flop jimmy the one Nov 2015 #100

This is the last time I engage you, since you can't be bothered to actually fact-check yourself tortoise1956 Nov 2015 #114

tortoises are slow jimmy the one Nov 2015 #115

I spoke too soon tortoise1956 Nov 2015 #116

good rid jimmy the one Nov 2015 #117

tucker & english game laws 1671 jimmy the one Nov 2015 #91

you're wrong jimmy the one Oct 2015 #58

Excellent points about Heller. guillaumeb Oct 2015 #59

No police force? Straw Man Oct 2015 #75

What I SHOULD have written, guillaumeb Oct 2015 #76

Clarification received ... Straw Man Oct 2015 #77

Perhaps more of a "perceived need" for personal self defense? guillaumeb Oct 2015 #78

actually, the total homicide rate is gejohnston Oct 2015 #79

Nevertheless. Straw Man Oct 2015 #80

My comment was on the big difference between actual and perceived need. eom guillaumeb Oct 2015 #81

Difference based on misinterpretation of stats. nt Straw Man Oct 2015 #83

Will you provide clarification? guillaumeb Oct 2015 #85

Clarification. Straw Man Oct 2015 #87

True. Homicide does not directly equate but any time that a homicide takes place, guillaumeb Oct 2015 #88

Right. Straw Man Oct 2015 #89

Thanks for posting. patsimp Nov 2015 #101

My pleasure. I posted in response to all the fantasy history here. guillaumeb Nov 2015 #105

Fd riversedge Nov 2015 #102

The 'gun lobby' didn't rewrite anything. beevul Nov 2015 #107

You reply ignores the plain language of the Second Amendment, guillaumeb Nov 2015 #109

On the contrary. beevul Nov 2015 #110

Article 1, Section 8, US Constitution: guillaumeb Nov 2015 #111

Nonsense. beevul Nov 2015 #112