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Creative Speculation
In reply to the discussion: Skygate 911 [View all]johndoeX
(268 posts)11. Read and Learn Seger
Seger quotes - "It is noteworthy that the section of Part 23 regarding flutter, 23.629, makes no mention of altitude. "
FAR part 23 is for small aircraft, like a Cessna 172... doh!
Now read reality....
"Many years ago, before oscilloscopes and sensitive vibration measuring devices were commonly used, aerodynamicists had a very basic means of identifying an airline's flutter speed. They'd find a skilled test pilot, show him a wheelbarrow full of money, then send him aloft to dive the airplane at dazzling airspeeds. The test pilot's job was to determine the speed at which the airplane experiences flutter.
When he returned-and when his breathing slowed and he regained his ability to speak-he'd tell his tale. He'd inform the engineers about the speed beyond which the airplane experienced flutter. This speed is known as Vd or design dive speed. "
http://flighttraining.aopa.org/magazine/1998/May/199805_Operating_Within_the_Envelope_Part_1.html
Now watch the flight certification test being done on the A380. Notice the pilots visibly shaking in their seats... note the airplane broke prior to Vd/Md, the test had to be aborted, and the airplane had to be modified to reach Vd/Md.
http://theflyingengineer.com/tag/vdmd/
There is no 50% margin of safety factored above Vd. You are confusing limit load with speed. The 50% margin of Safety is for G loading only.
"§25.303 Factor of safety.
Unless otherwise specified, a factor of safety of 1.5 must be applied to the prescribed limit load which are considered external loads on the structure. When a loading condition is prescribed in terms of ultimate loads, a factor of safety need not be applied unless otherwise specified. "
http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?SID=1aca5418517b105598535f0eaa929f65&node=14:1.0.1.3.11.3.162.2&rgn=div8
The margin of safety for speed is between Vc (of which Vmo is derived) and Vd ...
§25.1505 Maximum operating limit speed.
The maximum operating limit speed (VMO/MMO airspeed or Mach Number, whichever is critical at a particular altitude) is a speed that may not be deliberately exceeded in any regime of flight (climb, cruise, or descent), unless a higher speed is authorized for flight test or pilot training operations. VMO/MMO must be established so that it is not greater than the design cruising speed VC and so that it is sufficiently below VD/MD or VDF/MDF, to make it highly improbable that the latter speeds will be inadvertently exceeded in operations. The speed margin between VMO/MMO and VD/MD or VDFM/DF may not be less than that determined under §25.335(b) or found necessary during the flight tests conducted under §25.253.
http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?SID=1aca5418517b105598535f0eaa929f65&node=14:1.0.1.3.11.7.198.3&rgn=div8
Vd is the end of the Flight Maneuvering Envelope and the start of the structural failure zone/structural limit,
[img][/img]
http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?SID=1aca5418517b105598535f0eaa929f65&node=14:1.0.1.3.11.3.164.7&rgn=div8
.... and it is proven by precedent.
[img]

You really should watch the film, maybe you'll actually learn something. Such as, we do not claim an aircraft breaks at 1 knot over Vd, Mr Strawman.....
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Jetblue Captain and Aeronautical Engineer falls for Skygate 911 lies and fake Vg diagram
superbeachnut
Jun 2014
#71
math expert debunks pilots for truth math, pilot for truth forum thread confirms it
superbeachnut
Jun 2014
#44
pilots for truth fail to decode what a mathematician can, so much for experts
superbeachnut
Jun 2014
#48
Fake Vg diagram, inability to post the structural failure speed - pilots for truth
superbeachnut
Jun 2014
#53
Why can't the super pilots for truth source what they say they can source
superbeachnut
Jun 2014
#77
pilots for truth talk Technobabble with aerodynamics and can't explain their dumb-speak
superbeachnut
Jun 2014
#81
Where is the core, why do they not help spread lies of impossible speeds, and fake Vg diagrams
superbeachnut
Jun 2014
#111
pilots for truth unable to state the structural failure speed on their fake Vg diagram
superbeachnut
Jun 2014
#43
Fake Vg diagram supported with... nothing, pilots for truth fake Vg diagram supports lies about 911
superbeachnut
Jun 2014
#60
sign of no evidence, for lies of "structual failure at 425 KEAS", and fake Vg diagram, flying a desk
superbeachnut
Jun 2014
#88
How does this save the fake Vg diagram or the structural failure speed lie
superbeachnut
Jun 2014
#55
Paranoid conspiracy theorist fall for pilot for truth fake Vg diagrams and other lies
superbeachnut
Jun 2014
#65
paranoid conspiracy theorist post more lies and paranoia instead of evidence
superbeachnut
Jun 2014
#67
A fake Vg diagram appears in the Skygate video with the lie of structual failure at 425 KEAS
superbeachnut
Jun 2014
#78
pilots for truth make fake Vg diagram and explain how to fake the Vg diagram, without engineering
superbeachnut
Jun 2014
#86
Pilots for truth can't find the spec the 767 was built to, a reflection of their fake 767 Vg diagram
superbeachnut
Jun 2014
#129
Seger, are you familiar with real world exercise, practical application, and precedent?
johndoeX
Jun 2014
#134
Fake speeds, fake Vg diagram, failed physics, what is the next fake claim from pilots for truth
superbeachnut
Jun 2014
#132
To any person with a WORKING brain SOMETHING IS TERRIBLY WRONG WITH WHAT WE'VE BEEN TOLD ABOUT 9/11.
dballance
Jun 2014
#158
More nonsense sponsored by pilots for truth, more hearsay and exageration
superbeachnut
Jun 2014
#171
Working brain? You fell for lies in the "The Big Bamboozle", you were Bamboozled
superbeachnut
Jun 2014
#168
pilots for truth can't defend impossible speed lie, no support from rational Aero Engineers
superbeachnut
Jun 2014
#176