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William Seger

(11,695 posts)
9. He's engaging in sloppy, agenda-driven observation
Wed Dec 4, 2013, 02:18 AM
Dec 2013

... that produces the kind of fuzzy thinking and shoddy "evidence" typical of conspiracists who search only for validation of a predetermined conclusion. I just told you in very simple terms how we can be quite sure that his "squibs" are pneumatic rather than explosive, and as usual you completely ignored it -- as if ignoring the argument will make it disappear in a puff of smoke. Sorry, but no, the "squibs" can't be explained by explosives whether or not you understand why, and you're inability to understand how they could be explained by air being pushed out of the building at the weakest points is equally irrelevant. There is no "gas law" violated if the compressed air simply escaped first through already-broken windows or vents below the collapse front.

> Your challenge to achieve the pulverization of the concrete by explosives is a red herring.

Bullshit; you are the one who attempted to use that as an indicator of a controlled demolition rather than a gravity-driven collapse, so pointing out that the alleged perps would have needed to plant massive amounts of magical silent explosives all over occupied office floors is quite relevant to explaining why that's a perfectly idiotic theory.

> The mystery is that the energy requirement for the pulverization does not appreciably slow down the collapses,

Bullshit; we've been around that barn a dozen times. It's not at all a mystery to those who have accurately analyzed how much energy was available and how much the structure could absorb. It's only a mystery to fantasists who base their agenda-driven arguments on imaginary physics.

> nor has that energy requirement been quantified.

Bullshit; yes, it has, many times. I've mentioned to you a couple of times that the major flaw in "truther" Gordon Ross' infamous "momentum transfer" analysis was double-counting that energy. Frank Greening did a much more accurate quantification and showed how it can easily be explained by the amount of energy unleashed, and also made several salient observations about how implausible it is that explosives are the reason. You need to read that paper.

> Some of us prefer to eschew sophomoric solipsism and demand thorough, honest, and complete official investigations. Democracy permits no less a standard.

Bullshit; you just attempted to dismiss sound reasoning by completely ignoring it and offering "sophomoric solipsism" instead of cogent rebuttal, and this was certainly not the first time you've employed that tactic. You insult the intelligence of the entire board with your hypocrisy.


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North Tower Exploding... [View all] wildbilln864 Dec 2011 OP
"Explosive event" = "explosion" = "controlled demolition" William Seger Dec 2011 #1
NIST doesn't explain what he's talking about. Ace Acme Dec 2013 #6
Chandler doesn't explain what he's talking about, either William Seger Dec 2013 #7
Chandler does not need to explain them. He's just engaging in observation, Ace Acme Dec 2013 #8
He's engaging in sloppy, agenda-driven observation William Seger Dec 2013 #9
Your explanation of the squibs is contrary to the gas laws. Ace Acme Dec 2013 #10
What was the pressure rating of the ductwork in the towers? AZCat Dec 2013 #11
I don't know and you don't know. Maybe we should ask NIST for an investigation that tells us. Ace Acme Dec 2013 #13
Oh, I don't? AZCat Dec 2013 #15
I need an official energy budget so I can evaluate whether the claims Ace Acme Dec 2013 #16
No, you don't. AZCat Dec 2013 #17
Who are you to say I'm not relevant? Ace Acme Dec 2013 #18
Your inability to digest the information in the NIST report dictates your irrelevancy. AZCat Dec 2013 #19
Digesting the information in the report is not the problem. Ace Acme Dec 2013 #20
The NIST reports also didn't include an explanation of basic math. AZCat Dec 2013 #24
The NIST reports also didn't include a lot of things. Ace Acme Dec 2013 #25
I think you're confusing the behavior... AZCat Dec 2013 #26
What's chaotic? Ace Acme Dec 2013 #27
I think you have a problem with your logic. AZCat Dec 2013 #28
You have a problem with yours. Ace Acme Dec 2013 #29
Why would any model not converge? AZCat Dec 2013 #30
"Models", Mr. McGoo, not "model". Ace Acme Dec 2013 #31
So that'd be a "I don't know what it means" answer... AZCat Dec 2013 #34
The models did not converge on a single solution. Ace Acme Dec 2013 #38
What does THAT mean? AZCat Dec 2013 #39
As I said, it implies that the actual collapse was too orderly for the models to recreate. Ace Acme Dec 2013 #40
Aaaaand... AZCat Dec 2013 #41
Same thing as with WTC7. The collapse was more orderly than the models. Ace Acme Dec 2013 #43
Whatever. AZCat Dec 2013 #44
Oh I see. The failure of the models to converge is my fault Ace Acme Dec 2013 #45
The failure to understand why a model might not converge is your fault. AZCat Dec 2013 #47
I already told you the meaning of the failure to converge. Ace Acme Dec 2013 #49
Yeah, and it was wrong. AZCat Dec 2013 #50
Says the anonymous internet poster who's so ignorant of the issues Ace Acme Dec 2013 #51
I didn't create the science or terminology of modeling. AZCat Dec 2013 #52
You're just squirting stinky smoke. nt Ace Acme Dec 2013 #54
Is this your response to being called out for your lack of knowledge? AZCat Dec 2013 #55
Some people wave Big Fat Books to give the illusion of support for their empty claims. Ace Acme Dec 2013 #59
I don't need to wave a "Big Fat Book". AZCat Dec 2013 #60
Right, you don't need no stinking badges. Empty claims is all you need. nt Ace Acme Dec 2013 #63
Empty? Says who? AZCat Dec 2013 #64
By the way - you seem to have a bad habit of editing your posts (usually multiple times). AZCat Dec 2013 #53
Writing is rewriting. Only bots with libraries of canned responses get it right the 1st time nt Ace Acme Dec 2013 #56
Really? Most of the rest of us don't seem to have that problem. AZCat Dec 2013 #57
I'm not most of y'all, thank God. nt Ace Acme Dec 2013 #58
Too bad. AZCat Dec 2013 #61
Post removed Post removed Dec 2013 #62
"Handwaving" William Seger Dec 2013 #12
I ignore the evidence-free handwaving of anonymous internet posters Ace Acme Dec 2013 #14
Ah, so you judge reaoning by who presents it rather than validity? William Seger Dec 2013 #21
You're forgetting that NIST doesn't give me any arguments to ignore. Ace Acme Dec 2013 #22
If you can say, "NIST doesn't give me any arguments to ignore," you've ignored a lot William Seger Dec 2013 #32
You must have a secretary to type your blather. Ace Acme Dec 2013 #33
Aw... William Seger Dec 2013 #35
I don't need to demonstrate that it's nonsence after YOU'VE demonstrated that. Ace Acme Dec 2013 #36
You keep getting more and more wrong. nt greyl Dec 2013 #37
It's obvious A.A. is out of his element. AZCat Dec 2013 #42
I'm very much in my element. Slapping down bullshitters. nt Ace Acme Dec 2013 #46
Look inward, dear A.A. AZCat Dec 2013 #48
You have a heavy responsibility now, Bill jberryhill Dec 2011 #2
The video makes the Bush Administration's "investigation" of 9-11 appear crooked. K&R (nt) T S Justly Dec 2011 #3
Certainly it makes the report look incomplete. Ace Acme Dec 2013 #23
Excellent video - thanks for posting CrawlingChaos Dec 2011 #4
You're back supporting massive, silent explosions cpwm17 Dec 2011 #5
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