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In reply to the discussion: I'm lost on terminology; i.e. free fall [View all]OnTheOtherHand
(7,621 posts)20. status: false
(1) Bazant and Zhou say this:
For our purpose, we may assume that all the impact forces go into the columns and are distributed among them equally. Unlikely though such a distribution may be, it is nevertheless the most optimistic hypothesis to make because the resistance of the building to the impact is, for such a distribution, the highest. If the building is found to fail under a uniform distribution of the impact forces, it would fail under any other distribution.
I don't know how they could make it any more obvious that what they're modeling here isn't what they think happened -- unless, perhaps, they also commented on some of the specific differences between reality and this model ("For example, the upper part of one tower is tilting as it begins to fall..."


(2) In this scenario, Bazant and Zhou say, "the upper part may be assumed to move through distance h almost in a free fall," and they give a reason. Even if you don't understand the reason, and even if you don't understand the preceding point, it's hard to think how you can fail to understand "almost."
They can use g in their expression (1) because it's an estimate of the overload ratio, which works out to 31. They can assume that their professional readership understands that replacing g with, say, 0.9g won't drop the overload ratio below 1.
Near the end of the main paper, Bazant and Zhou do appear to lowball the collapse times (while still setting them higher than they would be in free fall). I have no idea how that could be construed as good news for a CD hypothesis, unless being able to show that B&Z were wrong about anything whatsoever as of September 2001 somehow strengthens the case for CD.
(3) Meanwhile, it took me ten seconds with Google to find a YouTube video titled "Twin Towers 10 Second Free-fall" -- posted in 2008, never corrected. I myself have talked with people who told me that the Twin Towers collapsed in free fall, so I know they exist.
(4) Way to derail the thread, jesters.
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You're right. But some people here apparently believe buildings are supposed to collapse slowly.
TheWraith
Dec 2011
#1
no, I don't think free fall is inherently contrary to a controlled demolition hypothesis
OnTheOtherHand
Jan 2012
#6
Oh, so it was just another pointless red herring, devoid of any actual argument?
William Seger
Jan 2012
#29
"I am stating that he is the only 9/11 researcher who is claiming free fall"
Bolo Boffin
Jan 2012
#36
There is nothing for me to be embarrassed about here, particularly in regard to Bazant.
Bolo Boffin
Jan 2012
#38
again, this refutes your point literally on its face, and more thoroughly in context
OnTheOtherHand
Jan 2012
#43
Shyam Sunder said the towers fell in 9 seconds and 11 seconds, and he said that was freefall.
Ace Acme
Dec 2013
#50
Can you calculate what the "free fall" time would be for a building resembling the twin towers?
AZCat
Dec 2013
#51
Where do you get the idea that I have a problem with the bulk of the information
Ace Acme
Dec 2013
#54
Why, no, not at all! I'm sure your understanding of it eclipses mine completely! nt
Ace Acme
Dec 2013
#60
You neither demonstrate your competence nor my incompetence. You make empty claims. nt
Ace Acme
Dec 2013
#80