Men's Group

I will start with a negative of sorts, but will end with a positive to make the reader feel good (maybe).

But before I begin, I'd like to say that even though I'm a Christian (as well as an oddball and a nut ), I am opposed to atheists being discriminated against or hassled in any way. That is a matter of principle to me. I am very sorry about the bullying you experienced for being an atheist. Any believer who would engage in that sort of misconduct is a disgrace and a hypocrite. Coercive religion is repellent to me. Some evangelicals clearly haven't a clue how to relate to people. I've often identified with outsiders because I've been one for most of my life. So, I trust that even though I am a believer and you are an atheist, we are friends. I mean, at least to the extent that that is possible in an online forum!

Now, regarding your question at the beginning of your post: When I referred to the "You're just jealous" dismissal, I definitely was not referring to you. But I have noticed in forums at this and other websites that when this sort of issue is raised and someone says he was bullied by "jocks" in high school and therefore has no great love for sports, the reaction of many sports fans does seem to be along the lines of "You're an elitist" or "You're just jealous" -- which, in my view, is an indication of close-mindedness and an unwillingness to consider a different point of view, as if theirs is the only legitimate one.

Perhaps I will upset some DU members, but I'll give an example: In a particular DU topic on bullying several years ago (I no longer remember the exact year), several of the members said they had been bullied by "jocks" in high school. Then another member whom I shall not identify started posting. He let it be known with considerable pride that he had played football in high school, and he bragged about all the sex he had had because of his social status as an athlete. Instead of acknowledging the emotional pain of those who had been bullied by "jocks" in high school, he said the pixels "reeked" of envy. When it comes to the experiences of those who were bullied in high school (regardless of who the bullies were), the operative word is "resentful," not "jealous." (Then he actually went on and played the victim card, claiming that at his 20-year reunion he was snubbed by some of his former classmates. Considering his attitude that he expressed in the topic, I wonder why ...)

That is what I mean by the "You're just jealous" dismissal. It really is a form of intellectual dishonesty, a manifestation of a lack of empathy.

I'm gonna take another risk now: There's one DU member I've learned about whom I really admire and respect, and that is -- and please don't hold this against me -- your nemesis trumad. I haven't read all of his posts in which he's criticized this group, as my time to be on the Internet is limited. I don't necessarily agree with his criticisms of individual members of this group, but what I really admire about the man is his attitude towards bullying and that he's actually intervened rather effectively at times. I also deeply appreciate the fact that although he has a decidedly athletic background, he still loves his nonathletic son. That means a lot to me. Oh, well, I hope I'm not in the doghouse now.


And now here's the positive, and I address these comments to any nonathletic guy who had to endure the forced misery of mandatory boys' P.E. that was exclusively centered around sports: Join a health club! So far I've gained over 30 pounds, mostly muscle mass -- even though I'm now in my early sixties! I love the feeling of physical strength in my body I've not experienced before. I can understand why some guys who take up bodybuilding become narcissistic, especially when they had had such low body self-image. It's also been psychologically therapeutic as well! I feel like I belong there. Even though I'm a nonathlete, my first physical trainer bragged about me to the other trainers.

Well, I gotta go ... My mother once told my best friend's mother, "Bill sometimes talks too much."