Men's Group

is that there are really two aspects, or ways to interpret the question- what do men need internally, and what do they need externally in terms of how society relates to them?

My inclination first is to answer it from the internal side, my own personal subjective opinion being that men (and, really, all people) need; inspiration, vision, a sense of humor, a reason to get out of bed in the morning despite existential angst, compassion, integrity, serenity and an ability to let go as well as connect.

In terms of society, I think men absolutely ought to be free of rigid societal expectations, including those attached to gender- one of the most perniciously ridiculous pieces of misinformation I've seen spread on this board, about this group, is the idiotic idea that this is some enclave dedicated to enforcing some archaic standard of gender norms. Nothing could be farther from the case, however this group's detractors similarly could never quite figure out why this place wasn't also the den of homophobia they've consistently wanted to insist it is.

Certainly some might call those archaic enforced gender norms and expectations "patriarchy", I've spent more than enough time going on about labels, honestly I don't care if people want to call them "Frank", it doesn't really change the on-the-ground reality of what they translate out to in peoples' lives. Families should be able to structure their lives, ideally, so that parents can spend more time with their kids, and if, in our modern over-stretched world, that means they're fortunate to be able to have a parent home with the kids, there's no reason why that "should" be the woman as opposed to the man. Nor should housework or other domestic duties be assumed to break along gender-specific lines. Nor should it be assumed that the man "ought to be" the one with the career, or the woman "ought to be" home with the kids, yadda yadda.

I also would say, regarding the above paragraphs; finding a conventionally attractive woman in a bathing suit, or a strapping male actor for that matter, physically visually appealling, does NOT mean one is "enforcing gender norms". People can like what they like (eyeroll eyeroll heavy sigh) and not be saying "this is how everyone must be". That, to me, seems like a strikingly obvious point, but it's fairly clear that distinction flies way over the heads of a bunch of folks.


Last thing I would say about societal "expectations"- they are real. Certainly, if one doesn't have a job and has no money, it's ludicrous to assert that they can meditate their way out of some mental chains that keep their wallet empty. That's "The Secret" type stuff. That said, I will reiterate my belief that past a certain point many -not all, to be sure, but many- of these expectations or walls or categories or social stigmas or whatever, at least in this country, fortunately, now in the 21st Century... only affect the affected insofar as they are willing to buy into that noise within their own head.


The goose has to get itself out of the bottle.