'You'll go down as a wimp:' Pence's never-before-published notes key evidence in case against Trump, book says [View all]

Source: ABC News

October 26, 2025, 7:11 AM


Donald Trump berated Mike Pence, calling his then-vice president a "wimp" during their final phone call on Jan. 6, 2021, hours before Congress certified the 2020 election of Joe Biden, according to Pence's previously unpublished notes included in a new book by ABC News Chief Washington Correspondent Jonathan Karl.

According to court filings, had his case against Trump gone to trial, special counsel Jack Smith planned to use the handwritten notes -- hastily scribbled on Pence's day planner -- as evidence to document the hours before Trump allegedly directed a violent mob to storm the Capitol.

"You'll go down as a wimp," Trump told Pence about his decision not to block Biden's certification, according to Pence's notes about the call on the morning of Jan. 6, just before the president took the stage at the "Save America" rally on the Ellipse. "If you do that, I made a big mistake 5 years ago," Pence wrote Trump told him.

The exclusive details are reported in Karl's upcoming book, "Retribution: Donald Trump and the Campaign that Changed America." The notes also include what appears to be a scribble of an angry emoji after Trump told Pence, "You listen to the wrong people," according to Karl.

Read more: https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/youll-wimp-pences-published-notes-key-evidence-case/story?id=126837443