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malthaussen

(18,293 posts)
57. In terms of civil society, no interest is served.
Tue Jun 24, 2025, 07:53 PM
Jun 2025

But that is not exactly the issue.

What interest of society is served by permitting religion at all? Or, if we can't find one in specific, let's ask if any (vague) interest of society is served by permitting religion? If the answer is "yes," then an entire bag of worms is opened. If the answer is "no," then you're declaring war on most of humanity, and will meet with a considerable amount of opposition in pursuit of ideological purity.

In any event, the people who founded the US and wrote its Constitution decided that some interest of society was served by permitting religion, to the point where they specifically guaranteed the right to free exercise of it (within certain broad parameters). It may be a guarantee honored more in the breach than we'd prefer, but it has worked about as well as could be expected. Having stipulated that, we cannot then decide we didn't mean it, and legislate restrictions to the free practice of a religion because we don't like one of it's tenets (a tenet that we knew right from the start, and that antedates the formation of the US by a good few centuries). At least, not unless we go through the stipulated process of amending the Constitution (and we'd run into some interesting problems about prejudicial practice in the process).

Lawyers have rules of confidentiality. Doctors have rules of confidentiality. Both of these, though, are purely social constructs. A lawyer could practice law if his records were not privileged (although it would surely cramp his style). A doctor even more easily could practice medicine without keeping a patient's health records privileged. There is nothing in either profession that requires confidentiality to function.

A priest is in a different position, and the confidentiality of the confessional is more than a social convenience. If we undermine that confidentiality, we undermine the very profession (well, vocation) of the priest. We undermine one of the pillars of the Catholic Church. This may not be something we want to do, and perhaps does not better serve the interests of society than does honoring their privilege. In any event, it is much more serious an action than it seems, looked at out of context. It's intriguing to me how so many people appear to think that attacking the sanctity of the confessional is not a big deal, or even some worthy thing that eliminates some unjust loophole that protects wrong-doers. Nobody is going to confess a crime if he knows it will be reported, so eliminating the confidentiality of the confessional will do exactly nothing, except undermine the authority and position of the priesthood, which I don't think is the intended result (although frankly, I can't understand what result *is* intended by this legislation). One thing is clear to me, if not to some others around here: the legislation under discussion will not reduce crime one percent.

-- Mal

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I should think a priest should want to report that . Tell the person confessing that he wont keep that. Srkdqltr Jun 2025 #1
That's not how it works iemanja Jun 2025 #3
So, you are ok DiverDave Jun 2025 #6
The seal of the confession is sacrosanct. TomSlick Jun 2025 #9
12 years of Catholic school here Retrograde Jun 2025 #12
What Bondi and the Trump admin are doing is ensuring that the Epstein's of the world are a little safer. Jit423 Jun 2025 #29
Thank you. WinstonSmith4740 Jun 2025 #42
This former Catholic nun, a survivor of child sexual abuse by a priest, disagrees. pnwmom Jun 2025 #19
"on pain of his soul".....what nonsense. AZ8theist Jun 2025 #21
This is how the Catholic Church became a hotbed of child rape and sexual assaults. Irish_Dem Jun 2025 #25
So people won't confess it. malthaussen Jun 2025 #10
There are 2 people involved in sex abuse. The abusive person and the victim. pnwmom Jun 2025 #20
Oh, I'll be more DiverDave Jun 2025 #24
If he knew it Jilly_in_VA Jun 2025 #44
You're ignoring the prior point. malthaussen Jun 2025 #56
It doesn't matter if I'm okay with it iemanja Jun 2025 #11
Radical priests believe only God can decide who should be punished, giving them permission to decide for themselves Martin68 Jun 2025 #43
You should think wrong... DenaliDemocrat Jun 2025 #62
Yet, the ancient and common law idea that a church is a "sanctuary" is out the door harumph Jun 2025 #2
That remains to be seen. Ms. Toad Jun 2025 #5
Good, but the point is DOJ doesn't hold to that particular sanctity of the church LymphocyteLover Jun 2025 #31
There is currently an injunction, barring ICE action in churches. Ms. Toad Jun 2025 #33
I hope so. My point is DOJ is being very hypocritical. LymphocyteLover Jun 2025 #45
Clubhouse rules, can't break a pinky-swear JoseBalow Jun 2025 #4
yup that's pretty much it Skittles Jun 2025 #15
Is it really a surprise that Crumb The 1st and his moniss Jun 2025 #7
since those folk are usually conservative Skittles Jun 2025 #16
Sick and tired of these fascist fuckwits using freedom of religion as a get-out of jail free card for their actions and Karasu Jun 2025 #8
Yes, and only if that "freedom of religion" encapsulates slightlv Jun 2025 #14
Priests are really caught in the middle leftyladyfrommo Jun 2025 #13
You're only looking at it from the perspective of the priest hearing the confession of the ABUSER. pnwmom Jun 2025 #23
I have no answers. I've always thought that leftyladyfrommo Jun 2025 #30
religious silliness KG Jun 2025 #17
Yeah, they've got the Catholic vote sewed up with antiabortion and bullshit like this. Who cares about poverty, capital Martin68 Jun 2025 #18
The seal of confession, and child abuse. The most and second most sacrosant things within the church. Lancero Jun 2025 #22
Mortal sins kkmarie Jun 2025 #26
The Catholic Church was created by Jesus, NOT man made. Jesus said "I," not someone else. ancianita Jun 2025 #47
I used to broad of a brush kkmarie Jun 2025 #48
Until you give examples, you still are. ancianita Jun 2025 #49
The one I used in my original post kkmarie Jun 2025 #51
When one is a member of the Catholic Church, one can't use one's God given free will to assert their own ancianita Jun 2025 #53
Then why does the church keep paying big money? dpibel Jun 2025 #52
Links? ancianita Jun 2025 #54
You cannot be serious dpibel Jun 2025 #59
Just a normal question, if you take it as fair. It's a common ask. ancianita Jun 2025 #60
Recognizing the futility of disputing with a true believer... dpibel Jun 2025 #61
I understand our differences. As a decades long Four Horsemen atheist I too ancianita Jun 2025 #63
This just shows the power of the Catholic church. Haggard Celine Jun 2025 #27
They will let evangelical christians do it. travelingthrulife Jun 2025 #38
Supreme Court oberle Jun 2025 #40
Supreme Court oberle Jun 2025 #41
The Catholic Church also has a special relationship with God. The facts about its policies: ancianita Jun 2025 #50
"Sit idly by" is exactly what Bondi wants the Catholic Church to do about child abuse. nt SunSeeker Jun 2025 #28
So, DOJ is protecting pedophiles. Got it. LymphocyteLover Jun 2025 #32
I know. For an instant there I thought Trump and company were doing a decent thing. travelingthrulife Jun 2025 #37
The larger question is should confession of a crime be protected? dlk Jun 2025 #34
In terms of civil society, no interest is served. malthaussen Jun 2025 #57
The priesthood has much to atone for dlk Jun 2025 #58
I am heartfully sorry that there is religion. Can I have an "amen". twodogsbarking Jun 2025 #35
LOL. Of course, child abuse...wouldn't want anyone to know about those perps since most are conservatives. travelingthrulife Jun 2025 #36
Singling out clergy, but not other types of privileged communications. onenote Jun 2025 #39
OK IF the law explicitly states that official confessions are subject to state law. OUTSIDE the confessional, however, ancianita Jun 2025 #46
Reason for this, republianmushroom Jun 2025 #55
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