General Discussion

Thank you for your thoughts and questions. I've looked into quite a bit today and I'll do my best to respond.

No one disputes that Epstein hosted frequent sex parties that were attended by many powerful people including Democratic politicians and patrons.

I really am not seeing what you're seeing. Which democratic politicians and where is the proof? There is so much out there and none seems to be backed up so I really don't know what you are referring to.

There were hundreds of victims, not one of whom has ever been found to have lied and perhaps the most prominent of whom – Virginia Giuffre, who accused Prince Andrew and others as well as Epstein – is now dead (along with other Epstein-associates' "suicides," e.g., Jean Luc Brunel and Steven Hoffenberg; and Mark Middleton, a former special advisor to Pres. Clinton with ties to Epstein was found hanging from a noose with a shotgun blast through his chest).

I will not call victims liars but Giuffre did say she was mistaken about Dershowitz and she changed her story on the Clinton island visit accusation after she told several different stories. Trauma can cause memory issues, trauma inside of a chaotic lifestyle can cause even more, add alcohol and/or drugs and other peoples experiences similar to your own you are bound to get some things mixed up or flat out wrong.

Mark Middleton, killed himself. Yes, it was a dramatic suicide but his family revealed he had problems with depression. His suicide came 21 years after he worked with Bill Clinton. Epstein was a fairly big Democratic donor at the time and weasled his way into politics and celebrity circles.
https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2023/feb/23/facebook-posts/former-clinton-white-house-aide-wasnt-murdered/

No one seriously believes that Epstein and Maxwell were the only abusers (if they were, why not be more discreet about it; why were their victims rolled out at parties like a dessert cart?)

Of course not but no one is interested in Mr. Smith that lives in the penthouse on such and such Avenue who owns 5 hardware stores. The victims really keep getting lost in a lot of reporting because the focus is on the Big names. I understand the hoopla right now because the Republicans brought this on themselves but overall it keeps coming around to the famous names.

As for whether any Democrats were involved, if Epstein was in fact operating a blackmail operation, wouldn't he have wanted to ensnare clients from across the political spectrum? Why did Pres. Clinton visit Epstein's island four times? How could he not have known of Epstein's predilections, as he claimed? And he wasn't the only Democrat associating with Epstein.

There is no proof that Clinton visited the island and Giuffre backtracked on that saying she didn't actually see him there. She then said it was based on what Ghislaine said and she goes on to say the Ghislaine made shit up. I would not put it past Epstein to "try" to ensnare Clinton but from everything I have examined, it didn't work. His world was situated around modeling, travel, clubbing. I think people were more apolitical or moderate in his heydays.

The key question for me re- the Democrats is, however, why did we hear almost nothing from them about the Epstein case during the four years of the Biden admin – especially if the only abusers were Republicans?

I can't answer that but what comes to mind is that they were psycho-busy with putting out the fires from the previous administration. The legal process was grinding away, Epstein had died, Maxwell went to prison and there may have been other investigations in the works. I'm pretty sure it just wasn't their highest priority.

Why not go ahead and prosecute them?

You have to have proof. Not every victim is going to want to testify and Guiffree wasn't the only one. Some of the victims would not hold up under the pressure either.

Sure, we all want to protect the victims, but a number of them were already pursuing claims publicly (much of what info we do have was obtained through their law suits), and the names of other victims could have been redacted. Why didn't the DoJ at least follow the money to track down where Epstein's enormous wealth came from?

Ask Bill Barr. Ask Pam Bondi. It would be great to be able to hear what Maurene Comey knew but I doubt she would speak about it other than in general terms (because she will want to get another job someday).

Why was Maxwell never offered a plea deal in exchange for her testimony, why was she never even questioned about any alleged "clients"? (See https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/ghislaine-maxwell-wants-to-testify-before-congress-about-epstein-files-source-claims-she-would-welcome-the-chance-to-tell-the-truth/ar-AA1IzHmR .)

Maxwell was not offered a plea deal because the prosecution felt they didn't need one. They felt they had enough to put her away and get a good sentence.

They most likely didn't want to complicate the proceedings which could have seen a much different outcome for Maxwell. They may have also not had enough evidence regarding other abusers. This is typical for big complicated cases. They did get some justice for the victims this way. I think this was on a lot of peoples minds after Epstein died.

I believe that the more carefully you look into this matter, the more concerned you'll feel.

Who says I'm not concerned? What I'm concerned about (at this time) is the glut of crap information flooding the news. People need to think about things and ask questions..... saying "Ok, that sounds salacious and therefore it must be true!" isn't doing anyone any favors. It just keeps the rumors spreading and the conspiracy peddlers cash positive.

I'm afraid I don't believe that Dems have always called out their own – indeed, it seems to me that they've only done it vis a vis Dem politicians who are either too old and decrepit to be of political consequence or who are seen as too successfully progressive (e.g., Al Franken). (I see the Republicans as similar in this regard, calling out Republican politicians only if they're either politically inconsequential or they aren't toeing the establishment party line.)

Democrats really are pretty good at holding our own accountable and I would think they would be a bit gun shy about going after anyone without proof (especially over this scandal) after the Al Franken fiasco. The only big name that I can recall that has any real evidence of wrong doing so far was Prince Andrew and even that got settled out of court.