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Related: About this forumRosie O'Donnell Just Beat Trump At His Own Game! - Really American
Really American host Chip Franklin breaks down Rosie O'Donnell striking back at Donald Trump and HUMILIATING Him in the BEST WAY! - 07/12/2025.
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Rosie O'Donnell Just Beat Trump At His Own Game! - Really American (Original Post)
Rhiannon12866
Sunday
OP
The Crowd Giggling at trump's Rosie insult can't tell the difference betweeen Politics and Entertainment
MagaSmash
Sunday
#1
Legal analysis from Professor Vladeck on trump's ability to strip Rosie of her US Citizenship
LetMyPeopleVote
Sunday
#2
Maddow Blog-Targeting a critic, Trump claims a power he does not have in new authoritarian move
LetMyPeopleVote
Monday
#3
MagaSmash
(10,091 posts)1. The Crowd Giggling at trump's Rosie insult can't tell the difference betweeen Politics and Entertainment
LetMyPeopleVote
(166,210 posts)2. Legal analysis from Professor Vladeck on trump's ability to strip Rosie of her US Citizenship
Here is a good analysis of denaturalization. It would be almost impossible for trump to strip Rosie of her citizenship without a nasty lawsuit
With President Trump threatening to revoke Rosie OâDonnellâs citizenship, it seems like a good time to re-up my explainer on denaturalization and expatriation â and why what Trump is suggesting is ⦠not viable:
— Steve Vladeck (@stevevladeck.bsky.social) 2025-07-12T18:40:26.584Z
https://www.stevevladeck.com/p/146-denaturalization-and-expatriation
For good reasons, it is difficult to denaturalize a U.S. citizen and even harder to expatriate one. As this weeks Long Read documents, Congress has provided for only a handful of circumstances in which the executive branch is empowered to pursue such a move; and the Supreme Court has recognized meaningful constitutional limits (and an entitlement to meaningful judicial review) even in those cases. As were seeing so often with the current administration, there may well be a legal avenue for at least some of what it appears to want to accomplish, but that legal avenue has too much, you know, law, interposing both substantive limits and procedural requirements between the President and his policy preferences......
Historically, and for good reasons, it has been exceptionally difficult for the government to involuntarily revoke an Americans citizenship. 8 U.S.C. § 1481 identifies seven classes of activities that can subject citizens to a loss of citizenship:
As should be clear from this list, most of the circumstances involve behavior in which an individual has manifested a specific and voluntary desire to surrender their citizenshipand not when citizenship has been revoked as a punishment. And even for subsection (a)(7), the one part that doesnt seem to require that on its face, the statute today includes an umbrella conditionthat loss of citizenship depends upon whether the individual voluntarily perform[ed] any of the [specified] acts with the intention of relinquishing United States nationality.......
Section 1481 applies to all U.S. citizens. For naturalized citizens (i.e., those who become citizens after birth), theres one additional basis for revoking citizenshipand thats if and only if their citizenship was illegally procured or . . . procured by concealment of a material fact or by willful misrepresentation. Here, too, the statute (and, almost certainly, the Constitution) requires notice and meaningful judicial review before an Americans citizenship can be stripped. As 8 U.S.C. § 1451(b) mandates,
Of course, the government can pursue denaturalization on broader grounds than it can pursue expatriationsince the Constitution doesnt create a substantive right to naturalization in the same way it does for birthright citizenship. But the key is that here, too, the Supreme Court has regularly insisted not only on meaningful judicial review of denaturalization proceedings, but on construing the relevant statutes narrowlyincluding, most recently, in 2017. (For much more on the complexities of denaturalization, see this fantastic February 2020 Practice Advisory from the National Lawyers Guild and the Immigrant Legal Resource Center.)
In other words, although denaturalization is potentially available in more cases than expatriation, it still requires meaningful, individualized judicial reviewreview that holds the government to a significant burden in providing that an individual wrongfully obtained their citizenship, and not just that they engaged in questionable behavior thereafter. There is, simply, no easy, fast path to revoking any Americans citizenship without their consentand there hasnt been for decades. That may not stop the current administration from trying it anyway, or from removing citizens unlawfully and then resisting the legal consequences. But its important to be clear on what the actual legal authority for such maneuvers would be. Here, there isnt any.
Historically, and for good reasons, it has been exceptionally difficult for the government to involuntarily revoke an Americans citizenship. 8 U.S.C. § 1481 identifies seven classes of activities that can subject citizens to a loss of citizenship:
(1) obtaining naturalization in a foreign state upon his own application or upon an application filed by a duly authorized agent, after having attained the age of eighteen years; or
(2) taking an oath or making an affirmation or other formal declaration of allegiance to a foreign state or a political subdivision thereof, after having attained the age of eighteen years; or
(3) entering, or serving in, the armed forces of a foreign state if (A) such armed forces are engaged in hostilities against the United States, or (B) such persons serve as a commissioned or non-commissioned officer; or
(4)(A) accepting, serving in, or performing the duties of any office, post, or employment under the government of a foreign state or a political subdivision thereof, after attaining the age of eighteen years if he has or acquires the nationality of such foreign state; or (B) accepting, serving in, or performing the duties of any office, post, or employment under the government of a foreign state or a political subdivision thereof, after attaining the age of eighteen years for which office, post, or employment an oath, affirmation, or declaration of allegiance is required; or
(5) making a formal renunciation of nationality before a diplomatic or consular officer of the United States in a foreign state, in such form as may be prescribed by the Secretary of State; or
(6) making in the United States a formal written renunciation of nationality in such form as may be prescribed by, and before such officer as may be designated by, the Attorney General, whenever the United States shall be in a state of war and the Attorney General shall approve such renunciation as not contrary to the interests of national defense; or
(7) committing any act of treason against, or attempting by force to overthrow, or bearing arms against, the United States, violating or conspiring to violate any of the provisions of section 2383 of title 18, or willfully performing any act in violation of section 2385 of title 18, or violating section 2384 of title 18 by engaging in a conspiracy to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against them, if and when he is convicted thereof by a court martial or by a court of competent jurisdiction.
As should be clear from this list, most of the circumstances involve behavior in which an individual has manifested a specific and voluntary desire to surrender their citizenshipand not when citizenship has been revoked as a punishment. And even for subsection (a)(7), the one part that doesnt seem to require that on its face, the statute today includes an umbrella conditionthat loss of citizenship depends upon whether the individual voluntarily perform[ed] any of the [specified] acts with the intention of relinquishing United States nationality.......
Section 1481 applies to all U.S. citizens. For naturalized citizens (i.e., those who become citizens after birth), theres one additional basis for revoking citizenshipand thats if and only if their citizenship was illegally procured or . . . procured by concealment of a material fact or by willful misrepresentation. Here, too, the statute (and, almost certainly, the Constitution) requires notice and meaningful judicial review before an Americans citizenship can be stripped. As 8 U.S.C. § 1451(b) mandates,
The party to whom was granted the naturalization alleged to have been illegally procured or procured by concealment of a material fact or by willful misrepresentation shall, in any such proceedings under subsection (a) of this section, have sixty days personal notice, unless waived by such party, in which to make answers to the petition of the United States . . . .
Of course, the government can pursue denaturalization on broader grounds than it can pursue expatriationsince the Constitution doesnt create a substantive right to naturalization in the same way it does for birthright citizenship. But the key is that here, too, the Supreme Court has regularly insisted not only on meaningful judicial review of denaturalization proceedings, but on construing the relevant statutes narrowlyincluding, most recently, in 2017. (For much more on the complexities of denaturalization, see this fantastic February 2020 Practice Advisory from the National Lawyers Guild and the Immigrant Legal Resource Center.)
In other words, although denaturalization is potentially available in more cases than expatriation, it still requires meaningful, individualized judicial reviewreview that holds the government to a significant burden in providing that an individual wrongfully obtained their citizenship, and not just that they engaged in questionable behavior thereafter. There is, simply, no easy, fast path to revoking any Americans citizenship without their consentand there hasnt been for decades. That may not stop the current administration from trying it anyway, or from removing citizens unlawfully and then resisting the legal consequences. But its important to be clear on what the actual legal authority for such maneuvers would be. Here, there isnt any.
I was so sad to see Professor Vladeck leave the University of Texas Law School.
LetMyPeopleVote
(166,210 posts)3. Maddow Blog-Targeting a critic, Trump claims a power he does not have in new authoritarian move
When an American president with an authoritarian-style vision starts claiming abusive powers he does not have, its best not to look away.
Targeting a critic, Trump claims a power he does not have in new authoritarian move
— (@gypsydaveh.bsky.social) 2025-07-14T16:06:28.680Z
flip.it/Q3n3xy
https://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/maddowblog/rosie-odonnell-trump-threatens-citizenship-power-rcna218623
NBC News reported on Saturday that Donald Trump threatened to take away comedian Rosie ODonnells U.S. citizenship because he doesnt like her. The message he posted to his social media platform read in part:
.....To hear Trump tell it, ODonnell used speech he found objectionable, which has led him to give serious consideration to stripping the comedian of her U.S. citizenship. Implicit in the statement is the presidents apparent belief that he has such power.
He does not. As NBC News report noted, Trump cannot legally take away Americans citizenship because that presidential authority simply doesnt exist.
Amanda Frost, an expert on citizenship law at the University of Virginia School of Law, told The New York Times, In 1967, the U.S. Supreme Court declared in Afroyim v. Rusk that the Citizenship Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment bars the government from stripping citizenship, stating: In our country the people are sovereign and the government cannot sever its relationship to the people by taking away their citizenship.
Trump, however, doesnt appear to understand this or more to the point, doesnt seem to care. An American citizen criticized him in ways he did not like, leading him to believe he should consider taking away his critics citizenship, as if this were somehow normal in our constitutional system.
It comes against a backdrop of Trump threatening to deny funding to cities that govern in ways he doesnt like. Which came on the heels of Trump threatening to prosecute a news organization for running reports he didnt like. Which came on the heels of Trump musing publicly about arresting a Democratic candidate he doesnt like. Which came on the heels of Trump floating the possibility of deporting American citizens. Which came on the heels of Trump endorsing the arrest of a Democratic governor who has opposed the White Houses agenda. Which came on the heels of Trump ordering a Justice Department investigation into his Democratic predecessor without cause.
And thats just from the last month or so.
The idea of two prominent public figures engaging in some kind of feud is forgettable, but when an American president with an authoritarian-style vision starts claiming abusive powers he does not have, its best not to look away.
Because of the fact that Rosie ODonnell is not in the best interests of our Great Country, I am giving serious consideration to taking away her Citizenship. She is a Threat to Humanity, and should remain in the wonderful Country of Ireland, if they want her.
.....To hear Trump tell it, ODonnell used speech he found objectionable, which has led him to give serious consideration to stripping the comedian of her U.S. citizenship. Implicit in the statement is the presidents apparent belief that he has such power.
He does not. As NBC News report noted, Trump cannot legally take away Americans citizenship because that presidential authority simply doesnt exist.
Amanda Frost, an expert on citizenship law at the University of Virginia School of Law, told The New York Times, In 1967, the U.S. Supreme Court declared in Afroyim v. Rusk that the Citizenship Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment bars the government from stripping citizenship, stating: In our country the people are sovereign and the government cannot sever its relationship to the people by taking away their citizenship.
Trump, however, doesnt appear to understand this or more to the point, doesnt seem to care. An American citizen criticized him in ways he did not like, leading him to believe he should consider taking away his critics citizenship, as if this were somehow normal in our constitutional system.
It comes against a backdrop of Trump threatening to deny funding to cities that govern in ways he doesnt like. Which came on the heels of Trump threatening to prosecute a news organization for running reports he didnt like. Which came on the heels of Trump musing publicly about arresting a Democratic candidate he doesnt like. Which came on the heels of Trump floating the possibility of deporting American citizens. Which came on the heels of Trump endorsing the arrest of a Democratic governor who has opposed the White Houses agenda. Which came on the heels of Trump ordering a Justice Department investigation into his Democratic predecessor without cause.
And thats just from the last month or so.
The idea of two prominent public figures engaging in some kind of feud is forgettable, but when an American president with an authoritarian-style vision starts claiming abusive powers he does not have, its best not to look away.