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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsIs there anyway a President's "pardon power" can be challenged?
It is obvious that Trump is not using the pardon power the way it was intended by the Founders. He is pardoning everyone that commits a crime in his name.
With former presidents, there was a process to receiving a pardon. Trump pardons with a tweet. He follows no process. Is it possible to make the process part of the legal requirement for a pardon? Could the Congress pass such legislation, since it does not interfere with the pardon itself?
All of the folks now assisting Trump in breaking the laws are anticipating a presidential pardon. The IRS Commissioner and Todd Blanche are helping him to try and steal money from the Treasury, from the taxpayers of this country. That cannot be legal in any sense. Is the pardon power unchallengeable?
It has gotten so insanely corrupt that he is now talking about pardoning himself? That has never been in the consciousness of any president ever, as far as I know? Some dictators would hesitate to make such a claim.
In my opinion, many crimes are being committed under the assumption that they will never be punished. They are relying on a pardon from Donald Trump.
Raven123
(7,909 posts)The Constitution specifies limits, which are 2: crimes that are not Federal and cases of impeachment (which is political after all).
https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution-conan/article-2/section-2/clause-1/overview-of-the-pardon-power
in2herbs
(4,554 posts)mr715
(4,202 posts)DavidDvorkin
(20,691 posts)Trump won that vote, and (grotesquely) that's the vote that matters.
bucolic_frolic
(55,903 posts)that pardoning criminals who have done your bidding might be a violation of his Oath of Office to "faithfully execute the Constitution".
There's almost an element of co-conspirator after the fact. And grand larceny on the money grabs. The bank president doesn't get to empty the vault without recourse.
MichMan
(17,421 posts)ColoringFool
(1,135 posts)Moreover, Trump was not tried for inciting that riot, so that puts the kibosh on the "doing his bidding" argument.
And there is no analogous job in the US to President, not even bank president. Bank presidents cannot pardon the incarcerated.
RedWhiteBlueIsRacist
(2,278 posts)People he breaks out of jail should be rounded up put back in the slammer.
ColoringFool
(1,135 posts)RedWhiteBlueIsRacist
(2,278 posts)Me to court: "If a guilty verdict is reached, why waste a jurists time if the President can override a person's guilt?"
MineralMan
(151,607 posts)There's no way to override that, I'm sure.
However, a President can be impeached and removed. It's not something that is tried very often, though. After the mid-terms, though, I think it will be worth a try once more. How does that saying go?
Third Time's a Charm!
Melon
(1,744 posts)In the last days of his presidency. This is complete garbage what Trump is doing, but has the process always been followed? I think its one of many processes now broken in our government because the founding fathers never anticipated the level of fraud in our government today.
dpibel
(4,018 posts)You actually believe there's equivalence between pardoning someone else--even a family member--and a self-pardon?
And what, exactly, does "process" have to do with it? We're talking about product here, not process.
Melon
(1,744 posts) With former presidents, there was a process to receiving a pardon. Trump pardons with a tweet. He follows no process
Biden gave a preemptive pardon to his family. Did that follow a process? Trump is obviously abusing things but what is the process and is it valid anymore?
Its a difficult argument if the process wasn't at the highest standard in the past. Maybe the entire process needs to be scrapped.
dpibel
(4,018 posts)You seem to be saying that if, in your humble opinion, Biden's process was not at the highest standard in the past, then how can we fault Mr. Trump.
Right?
EdmondDantes_
(2,108 posts)So Biden wasn't the first person to pardon someone who hadn't been charged although obviously Nixon was guilty and there's no evidence Biden's family (other than Hunter) or the January 6th committee have done anything wrong.
The pardon power does seem overly broad, but presidents have often used it for connected people, just usually not so blatantly and self serving, or as a number of the January 6 rioters have proven, so likely to be arrested for other crimes so quickly.
ColoringFool
(1,135 posts)Ars Longa
(585 posts)list of things to run on, both 2026 & 2028!!!!
H2O Man
(79,284 posts)changing Article II, Section 2, Clause 1 of the Constitution. I think it would be far better to concentrate on the things that actually can be accomplished.
H2O Man
(79,284 posts)The Constition's only limitation is in cases of impeachment.
wnylib
(26,495 posts)Is a pardon valid if the president offers a pardon promise in order to persuade people to commit crimes?
Example: "I want Senator XYZ's home burned down to send a message to him. Don't worry. I'll pardon you."
ColoringFool
(1,135 posts)wnylib
(26,495 posts)It's not the same thing as what I was asking about. Although it looks like a deal was made before Nixon resigned that Ford would pardon him, we can't know for sure. Even if that's true, Nixon had already committed his crimes before Ford became president.
My question was about a president already in office before a crime was committed persuading someone to commit a crime with the promise in advance of the crime that the president would pardon them. In other words, a president using the promise of a pardon to persuade person to commit a crime.
lees1975
(7,198 posts)But it's a high threshold to amend the Constitution.
1. No prior felony conviction.
2. Must pass the eighth grade standard constitution test. Betcha Trump can't.
3. No pardon power, that's too much.
4. Executive orders limited.
5. No immunity from prosecution for crimes committed while in office.
6. Actual enforcement ability given to neutral police force to prevent violations of the emoluments clause. In other words, arrrest his ass for insider trading now.
onenote
(46,233 posts)I certainly didn't. Can someone post the questions on this "standard" test?
ColoringFool
(1,135 posts)ColoringFool
(1,135 posts)SSJVegeta
(3,164 posts)no_hypocrisy
(55,438 posts)It can be done after Trump, but not during his tenure. No political will right now.
SocialDemocrat61
(8,061 posts)The President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual Service of the United States; he may require the Opinion, in writing, of the principal Officer in each of the executive Departments, upon any Subject relating to the Duties of their respective Offices, and he shall have Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offences against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment.