Let's see--a winner of two Pulitzer Prizes, reporting for the NYT since 1984... So, he's going to piss off his reputation and career with an unsubstantiated report this serious? Has he ever had an anti-Israeli bias in this reporting (not that I know of, but of course it will be claimed now). Perhaps those who constantly and immediately claim "LIES" to that which is unpleasant to hear or read, might just want to take a breath and do more research on their own. Interesting that it is the reports of widespread rape of civilians and not the repeatedly documented mass killings of that same population that has enraged.

Not really the lead argument you think it is... Hungary under Orban WAS on an equal footing with Trump, after all, but after his overwhelming loss and a move toward democracy, no longer. That should tell you something. Netanyahu wants everlasting war to stay out of jail and thus eschews elections--your idea of democracy?

The discovery phase should prove interesting.

It will be incumbent on Israel to disprove the report.

I understand there is video

First the genocide, then the denialism.

Happens every time.

Have I ever been gangraped with objects by Israeli prison guards? No. I''ve also never been shot into a pit by an Einsaztgruppen, but I know if fucking happened. Any other questions?

I'm curious if you personally have experienced genocide and erasure.

There are a lot of Americans who have experienced this. Not just the tiny population of Jewish Holocaust survivors and their descendants, who carry that trauma, but also the millions of Americans who are descendants of enslaved people, whose lives have been impacted in immeasurable ways by the United States government's ongoing oppression of Black people, exercised through the systemic use of every institution. And the Americans who are American Indians, whose land and identity were taken from them through genocide and erasure by the U.S. government using every institution.

I strongly disagree with the actions of Netanyahu's government just as I strongly disagreed with the actions of George W. Bush's government. We the people of the United States are directly responsible for so many atrocities we are literally drowning in the blood of hundreds of millions. I face this and I recognize it when it's happening again.

What I see happening again right now in the U.S. is yet another example of the American people blaming and attacking a minority (Jewish people) in yet another burst of self righteousness as we point the finger at others.

This time the addition of screams of "Genocide!!!" and "deniers!!!" is especially ironic.

Let's look in our own mirrors.

P.S. Netanyahu wouldn't be getting away with this right now if a bunch of losers hadn't decided that "Killer Kamala" was worse than Trump.

Netanyahu wouldn't be getting away with this right now if a bunch of losers hadn't decided that "Killer Kamala" was worse than Trump.

Many Americans can accept criticism of the US without taking it personally. So can many Jewish people, in Israel and elsewhere, accept criticism of Israel without taking it personally. Biden did many good things, but he was weak pushing back on Netanyahu. That perception of weakness hurt the Democratic Party. Standing up against the current Israeli administration is the right thing to do, just as protesting this administration is.

"Netanyahu wouldn't be getting away with this right now if a bunch of losers hadn't decided that "Killer Kamala" was worse than Trump."

BTW, where are all the "pro-Palestine" protestors now? How come they aren't camped out in front of the WH?

I prefer anti-genocide to pro-Palestine, but I get it you don’t care about Palestinians.

You don't "get" anything about me.

Pro-Palestine equals losers. That says a lot.

Or in this case, in my keyboard?

That says a lot.

Nobody but you made that equivalence here.

Interesting.

In what ways was Biden "weak" in pushing back against Netanyahu? Don't bother answering... it will be the usual self righteous spittle and lack of any actual facts. Trump is waaau better, sure. Eye roll.

I'll repeat. Losers who thought "Killer Kamala" was worse than Trump are enabling atrocities all over the world.

Don’t want to upset the weapons industry.

What has Trump done to push back on Netanyahu?

Foreign appropriations are approved by Congress. The Republican Party tends to support Israel even more vehemently than Democrats, so what and whose purpose was served by electing Trump and a majority-Republican Congress?

Anybody who encouraged voters not to support Harris is complicit in what Israel is doing now.

Your insults are childish.

If you don't want people to mistakenly assume you didn't support Harris's campaign, be clearer in what you're saying.

Democracy depends on citizens exercising their right to vote in a thoughtful, informed way.

One very basic piece of information is that we have a binary, two party, winner take all system.

Our votes aren't a test of our moral purity. Votes aren't a test at all. They're an obligation.

They have a choice whether to show up or not. It's a politician's job to get them to turn out. Given the low turnout for many elections, it's clear that's not being done. That you can only see a binary choice means you can't see a view outside of your own.

As much as you might like to believe it's not true, we have a two party winner take all system. Either Trump or Harris was going to be president. Either the Republicans or Democrats were going to control Congress. No other options in 2024.

Voters who didn't vote - allowing Trump to become president - did their part to contribute to the horrors that are being unleashed now.

Elections are not a popularity contest where we reward people we like. Elections are a deadly serious obligation of citizens in a democracy.

Trump is such a scammer. MAHA is very pissed too as he told them all America would be first with no more wars.

If Harris had broken with Biden on Israel and made peace a big part of her campaign I think she would have won by a landslide.

Very easy to find and face facts and reality if you are so inclined.

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/waf2.70009

https://www.npr.org/2025/08/28/nx-s1-5515620/israel-gaza-biden-famine

Anyone can find easily find at least a dozen more to better inform themselves - if they wanted to.

Let's talk about THEM. Their history has been erased by the government, they have been shoved onto poor bits of land, their problems have been ignored, their children taken....shall I go on?

In NC, most of the tribes prefer the term American Indian. I know it varies from place to place.

There was a report out as early as February 2024, followed by a few others in 2024 and 2025. All documenting abuses since October 2023. Really horrendous stuff. Few were paying attention and many more ignored or denied it. Systematic sexual abuse is one of the many, many atrocitoes committed during the genocide that were swept under the rug. But it was being done to Palestinians, so... same as it ever was, same as it EVER WAS.

Eff Off.

for telling the TRUTH? Oh, that's rich. Rich indeed!

I tend to believe this particular columnist but I will never forget that the NYT employed a CIA asset to publish falsehoods about Iraq that helped convince Americans that we needed that atrocious war.

and the TRUTH is a positive defense against libel.

And it's not the first reporting about the prisons. I can't stop thinking about these "guards" and what it's like when they go home, to their families. To say, they aren't soldiers out in the field, with a fog of war and all that, they go home. The level of sadistic violence is overwhelming, I cannot imagine that work environment culture. What has become acceptable. Please forgive the sheltered Midwestern white gal rant. I know atrocities aren't unique.

I wonder what the guards at the so-called Alligator Alcatraz do when they go home?

Or the ICE agents who have murdered, tortured, raped and deported children? I wonder what they're like at home.

But I've never heard of this type of extreme, pervasive and state sanctioned sexually based violence here. Though I would condemn it no matter to whom, or where or why it was committed. The lack of decent food, medical care, poor sanitation and over crowding here is horrible enough, and it is common. There have been prison fight clubs and other sordid affairs. But I only know about any of this because they were reported on and investigated.

Whereas in the Israeli prisons, where they can be held without any charges, I've never heard of any legal penalties for the violence described in the article. Here it isn't legal to rape prisoners. It seems to be routine there. I do not believe any legal actions will happen for any of the victims in the article. And that's a major difference.

Alligator Auschwitz is what I call it, because people wiser than I pointed out the inmates at Alcatraz actually had trials. And because Auschwitz also started as a detainment camp.

Edited for typo

I suggest you read some history about the U.S. prison system and the murder and rape of prisoners, especially people of color.

Yes I'm familiar with history. Yes there were state sanctioned atrocities. I am glad it's not the here and now, which is what we're discussing. Or trying to.

Are you even vaguely aware of what ICE is doing, here and now? Are you aware that two people were murdered by ICE on the street in Minneapolis and nobody has been charged? No investigations?

Are you aware of the people we have sent to be tortured and killed in prisons in El Salvador? And other places?

Do some reading.

When I should have cut that off right away, because I don't feel any differently about the atrocities being done by ICE or anybody else. Why would I? Why would any sane person? It's all a fight for humanity. Every time the truth pops it's ugly little head up. And why wouldn't I be aware of those other events? Nothing excuses them either.

Pointing to other people and places doesn't make the accounts in the article any less shocking, or the fact that Israel is trying to sue over it any less...what's the word I'm looking for...complict. The violence isn't being committed by child soldiers or cartels. It's not the other prisoners. And it's being covered up apparently, judging by this suit.

So I'm done trying to fend off efforts to normalized what's being done to an already beaten down people. Using comparisons to other atrocities, really? You may go along your merry way believing I am naive, and just don't know history well enough to not wonder how the people who committed such acts in a permissive environment go home to their families at night. I think we should all wonder that actually.

Not to rant and run, but I came on here to express disgust, and I'm done. Implying this story is somehow less important or shocking because of something else that happened somewhere else just isn't an argument I'm going to continue. Trying hard not to be insulting.

Have an evening

US? Israel?

Maybe his government should start with an investigation into the article's allegations.

Why is that?

Who is saying it could never happen and who is calling Kristof a liar, other than Netanyahu? It's obvious why he's doing that, but I haven't seen others say it. If you cite some maybe we can analyze them.

nt

I'm still waiting.

n/t

One: Bibi sues the NYT, but expects a settlement before Discovery.

Two: NYT counsel is resistant to settle. All evidence points to a judgment in its favor.

Three: And ex deus machina! A phone call from President Donald J. Trump to the NYT. "Hey! Leave my BFF, Bibi, alone and give him his money. I wrote down a number for you . . . . . "

Four: NYT responds, "Are you out of your mind?"

Five: Trump tells them he can pick a date for its last publication.

Six: NYT acquiesces and asks should the check be made out to Bibi or בנימין נתניהו.

It's a shakedown and Bibi will be splitting his pot of gold with TSF.