General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsAmerica's betrayal crystalizes in the EU
Kaja Kallas, Vice-President of the European Commission, is an astute politician.
Kaja Kallas:
"Washington is not trying to manage Europe. It is trying to dissolve it.
They do not like the European Union,..
The tactics,resemble those used by the EU's adversaries..
The answer is not bilateral deals with Trump. It is unity. Because when Europe stands together, it is an equal power. And that is exactly what Washington cannot stand."
Link to tweet
Solly Mack
(97,057 posts)ananda
(35,293 posts)Stand strong, EU.
Wounded Bear
(64,442 posts)If they stay unified, and the Orban loss helps that a lot, they can succeed without us. EU/NATO (sans US) are quite the bloc. Certainly, they can succeed as an economic power, militarily they need some bolstering but they'll be fine.
Thanks, trump.
DFW
(60,317 posts)The EU nations plus Norway and Switzerland got away with instituting some wonderful social nets after World War II because with the USA providing the military safety umbrella needed for political stability, they could afford it. Already taxing their populations to degrees that would have caused armed citizen rebellion in the USA, they provided services that the citizens of the U.S. could only dream of. We do NOT have "free everything," as some in the States like to claim. It is financed differently, that's all. As long as we are there to provide a reassuring backup, they'll manage to afford it. Norway will be OK due to their small population and their North Sea oil. Switzerland will make do, as they have a small population as well, and have been prudent (by European standards) with their finances. The UK has North Sea oil as well, but their population is something close to 8 times that of Switzerland, and they maintain a substantial military, which is at least a partial drain on their finances, and thus social services.
BUT...........
Now that the EU can NOT depend on the USA as a reliable defense backup, they are faced with trying to figure out how to not reduce the social services their populations have come to take for granted, and build up their own military safety shield at the same time (hint--they can't do it). The word "deficit" has turned into a particularly ugly word because membership in the EURO-zone requires the member states not to run a deficit over 2%. There will have to be trade-offs, or else the USA will have to somehow resume all or at least part of its pre-Trump role AND (non-negotiable if this is to work) provide credible assurances that another Trump will never again pollute the White House with his disdain for anyone who does not make a hobby out of kissing his substantial ass.
Already, the Germans were furious with the Greeks for coming to Germany with their hands outstretched, saying, "we can't handle being part of the Euro (correct), and we are going under. Send us a massive amount of money, or we'll drag the whole Euro system down with us." They were exactly correct, and the Germans paid up, incensed that their taxes were used for a lot of it. The Euro zone had no business letting Greece into the Euro to begin with. The Greeks used to let their bureaucrats retire at 55, and gave them huge pensions, paying for it by continually devaluing the drachma, their currency. But when they joined the Euro, they no longer had that option. Their central bank was the same as every other country in the Euro zone, and they couldn't devalue their currency any more. It was Frankfurt's decision, not that of Athens. Since they couldn't devalue the Euro, they could no longer afford to let their (excessive number of) bureaucrats retire at 55 with huge, unjustifiable pensions.
Some serious, and probably painful trade-offs are in the EU's near future, and there will be some huge, damaging strikes protesting the measures. Way too many hands are demanding pieces of the pie that doesn't have enough slices to go around. It's like that old gangster movie, where the robbers are splitting up their take: "I'll take half, and you two guys can have thirds." It has been like that for over half a century, and there not enough "thirds" left to go around. Sure, guys like Putin and Erdoğan have Bezos-like billions stashed around the globe. Probably Orbán, too, at this point. So what? Who is going to do anything about it? Anyone want to go over to Russia or Turkey and yell "tax the rich?" Be my guest, but make sure your will is current, and that your next of kin have made funeral arrangements.
dave99
(79 posts)SleeplessinSoCal
(10,427 posts)"Mark Carney: Close US ties are a weakness that must be corrected"
https://www.yahoo.com/news/articles/mark-carney-close-us-ties-114555076.html
It's tremendously tragic to see our relationships disappear under one corrupt POTUS. He appears always to be helping Putin.
Bayard
(29,962 posts)They must know we hate him too.
Send help!
Dr. T
(665 posts)putrid garbage in the eyes of the world just as all German citizens of the 1930's were tied to Adolph, even though many hated him. If World War III breaks out, we will be isolated and on the receiving end of world-wide wrath.
Thank a MAGAt for that and never let them forget.
fujiyamasan
(1,887 posts)They know they can no longer rely, or even trust the US at this point for anything critical. For them, its not a matter of whether a democrat comes back to office and does everything possible to try to restore that trust. They know all of it can be undone four years later.
Some of it was due to their own complacency (especially defense spending and energy security) but the inconsistency in policy makes it difficult to consider us a partner. At worst, were just another adversary like Russia or China.
paleotn
(22,448 posts)It was US policy throughout the Cold War to keep Europe militarily weak. Initially due to the fear of a resurgence of nazi politics. Really, it was a means to keep Western Europe pliable and in tune with US interests. After the damage was done, decades of inadequate military spending to protect themselves without US help, that's when we started bitching that they weren't carrying their NATO weight. Go figure.
slightlv
(7,848 posts)I DO hope they realize there are millions of us who are captives of trump here in the U.S. We don't want him; we hate him; we absolutely detest him for what he's doing to our country, to our former allies, and FOR our former enemies. WHY in the world doesn't someone with the power charge the "man" with treason? He gives aid and comfort to our enemies and works against our allies. Someone please make it make sense to me... I guess I'm so old I've lost all sense of reality and truth.
popsdenver
(2,402 posts)instead of Trump......Trump will go bye-bye at some point. But he is just a pawn/mounthpiece for the others directing his every move.
When he is gone, there are several Republicans, waiting in line, that are proven they can/will be far worse.....
wnylib
(26,231 posts)I just call them the Fascist Party.
Billsdaughter
(166 posts)accurate. Especially after the whole world saw between 8 and11 million of us taking our fight to the streets!
SleeplessinSoCal
(10,427 posts)In 1993, to compete with the US and other larger powers?
True Dough
(26,961 posts)However, unity is not easy to maintain, particularly when Russia is constantly using disinformation campaigns in attempts to sow chaos.
Martin68
(27,924 posts)paleotn
(22,448 posts)God knows we need a counter balance economically and militarily. Low level mistrust of the US has been there for quite awhile and rightly so. It just became overt distrust with Trump.
aeromanKC
(3,929 posts)True Dough
(26,961 posts)there is no way to say, "We'll continue to do business with America, but not with Donald Trump."
BeneteauBum
(611 posts)Amazing how in 15 months America and the EU have gone from working on cooperative solutions to the idiot deciding what is best (for his portfolio).
Peace ☮️
Cha
(319,601 posts)PEDO-Putin want to Fuck EU Over!
But So Many Americans Support the EU
Martin68
(27,924 posts)When Democrats take over we can restore relations to normal over time - but Europeans now know that at any time the barbarians can take over in the US and all treaties and agreements are worthless.
Johnny2X2X
(24,320 posts)The EU is a huge economic power if they stick together and can swing as much power as the US or China.