during those 8 years, I never got that far with re: to Bush*. Not a fan, but at least he had a sense of humor (and a personality)- was not uneducable nor hate-filled and hate-motivated.

I don't care much for the man and I think he was an incompetent president, but he had redeeming qualities, not something we can say about the current occupant.

Yeah, I still think Cheney was evil. He had no remorse for the destruction and death he caused. Plus much of it appeared to be for financial gain. There was something truly off about that guy.

Cheney was a powerful man though. He made google remove every copy they could find of the video on YouTube…and they censor the word “water board” in this copy…hard to find the original.

I do remember what he did to Valerie Plame and it was all out of petty spite.

When I see Cheney, I think "sinister".

Extremely hateful.

But your vague comment feels as though it is an attempt to call me out too. If so, that is very uncalled for.

It was when Bush was governor of Texas. During an interview with Tucker Carlson, he made fun of some woman on death row. It was pretty ugly.

Still, I don't see Bush as evil the way I do Trump or Cheney. George wasn't terribly smart and he was totally out of his league. He was almost the worst president ever.

I doubt there is a single R (or many Dems, for that matter) whose comment or behavior in a single incident would not be something that we could point to and decry--even if it was isolated and (in the case of DEMS, typically not repeated). I was NOT claiming support for Bush*--something they seemed to be implying--which I find both disingenuous and sanctimonious.

Comparing Bush*, Cheney, and Trump and any other figure of opposition over recent years is something that thinking DUers better get used to because IT IS NOT 100% the same and Trump has now set a formerly unimaginable new level of disdain. To point out that a RW figure has not approached the level of Trump is not inappropriate nor a proxy for support. To imply otherwise is to smear fellow DUers. And yes, I am fully justified in calling that out as an attack.

suggests a rehabilitation or absolution for a different absolutely terrible president. What's the point? Trump is terrible, Bush was awful, Nixon was vile, Reagan was the beginning of the end for the American middle class. Playing a game of which terrible president was more terrible is a useful exercise, and it indirectly suggests that those who aren't at the top (or the bottom) of the list are somehow not so bad. Let's agree e wouldn't want any of those people back in office and concentrate on comparing liberal and Democratic candidates who we can all agree would be better than any of those deplorables.

I am not trying to "smear" anyone, and I hope no one smears me for expressing my opinions.

do need to get used to it. Your opinion is respected, just as mine should be-- without those trying to cut either of us off by implying we are not engaging in their view of ideological PURITY.

what a poster means with their comments, but I can see taking that as an attack, one that would not be justified in this situation.

Committed a brutal murder as a drug addled street criminal. Sentenced to death row, she spent the rest of her life -- I want to say a decade or more -- a Born Again prison minister who helped countless other drug addicts kick like she did, and worked with them on improving their lives.

When her appeals had all been denied, she appealed for clemency from fuck head Shrub. Religious leaders from around the nation supported her plea for mercy. So then this born again phony not only denied her clemency, he made fun of her plea not to kill her.

Fucking evil is GW Bush, not maybe as evil as Cheney, or certainly Trump, but let us say that if I am proved wrong, and there is indeed a Judgement Day, I wouldn't want to be in his cowboy boots!

run of executions he presided over, ignoring every appeal), ignorant, shallow, and invaded Iraq under false pretenses.

'Please don't kill me' he joked. W is JUST like Donald except for Donald has a far more inept team surrounding him.

Not me! He's a POS who invaded and killed thousands of our troops and 100's of thousands of innocent Iranians. He wanted to show the old man (who always knew he was a LOSER) that he wasn't. But he once again showed he was a loser.

He also let Darth Vader and others lead him around by the nose so he could steal Oil and give out billions of $$ of no bid contracts in Iraq.

Clinton left he with a balanced budget and billions of surplus $$and he BLEW IT. Right on the heels of the Reagan tax cuts for the rich he rolled out his own. The rich got richer even more. Him and his thugs in Congress fought minimum wage increases and unions.

He was garbage then and he still is........

while in the WH does NOT imply they are blinded to his likewise disgusting behavior. But we have every right to point out these psychological differences even while the new threshold is previously unimaginable--that of Trump who has the malignant narcissism and sadism dialed up to Maximal. Both Bush* and especially Cheney shared some of those same traits, but Trump has set a new level of disgust.

I'd take that trade all day every day.

"a scholar and a gentleman" even when compared to Trump. Such a comparison does not turn W into something he never was, IMHO. He was a terrible president, and a vile human being. How soon we forget...

discussion--as well (for some) a level of unearned sanctimony while implying the opposite for those who merely wish to engage in more complex discussion. The latter is inexcusable among DUers IMO (and that of most others).

NO ONE here has forgotten the overall sins of Bush* Cheney or others. No one here (sans trolls) supported them then or now. It is not the same as merely discussing personality differences. And nowhere did I EVER state that Bush* was a "scholar and a gentleman"--albeit the comparison with Trump would move him closer to that no matter how lacking. Honesty is a key factor in civil discussion and debate should be intellectual with all its complexities--not mere memes-- please.

GOOD!

Do it faster

That W could be exceeded in awfulness, I could understand, if it was some kind of minor incremental change. No, this trump guy is orders of magnitude more awful than W. In every way. I mean, it's kind of impressive and overwhelming what F47 has done to this once-great nation, like a kaiju monster tearing up a city Pacific Rim style. Once this regime ends, we may well need a complete overhaul of the founding documents to ensure this idiocy doesn't happen again. At minimum, we need a constitutional amendment making explicitly clear which specific circumstances permit a president to ignore certain laws in very specific ways without consequence. ("Enjoy your legal consequences" should be the default.)

Americans (hell, humanity generally) really need to come together to decide what kind of world we want our grandchildren to live in and find a way to get started on it, preferably before it's all too late -- which might already be the case.

Dubya proved me wrong. I thought he was the worst we'd ever have to deal with.

Trump proved me wrong. I hope he's the worst we'll ever have to deal with.

After Dubya came Palin on the scene and I thought her stupidity was rock-bottom. Boy was I mistaken

Afghanistan was our longest, and shouldn't have been waged.

Iraq was based on the most lies.

But Dipshit Donald's war, combined with his shredding of our alliances, may be the most difficult to recover from. Can we ever be trusted again? We have yet to see the economic impact, especially if the dollar is dumped internationally.

It will be remembered that the American public put this monster in the WH...two times. I surely wouldn't trust "us".

Are we EVER going to do something about that travesty? I'm one of the three million whose vote didn't count in the 2016 election.

And it won’t require a constitutional amendment: The National Popular Vote Interstate Compact. Virginia is or has just signed on, making a total of 222 EVs.

As long as the Repukes hold the NC legislature, I have no hope it will pass here, but maybe, just maybe…if we’re lucky, those assholes will be sent packing in November and we can get to work fixing all the shit they’ve broken.

Flip side is that states are free to award EVs as they see fit. 🤷‍♂️

But Trump was doing that BEFORE he launched this stupid war, which is speeding up the dismantling.

to wash the Trump stink off of our country. That timeline might be shortened by impeaching his worthless ass, but lengthened if nothing is done about him.

but I know people who have been around him. And yes, you might want a beer with him. If you were talking sports or art, he is more of a regular sort.
If you didn't know his history, you would enjoy his company. (It seems the other ex-Pres do)
On the other hand Trump makes your skin crawl no matter the place.
I know people who have been near him on occasion, and he is always vile.

just like T💩p should be, but as we all know -- IOKIYAR!

But that doesn't change what I posted.

His presidency sucked, but at least he was not a total asshole.

Eisenhower was the last honest Republican president.

after a while, history won't have him as being so bad.

I do think he is haunted by the wars he started and soldiers that were lost and feels guilt over it.

But Daddy Bush pushed him to run because he didn't think Jeb could win.

Dubya was just a grown up frat boy at heart who didn't really want to work at anything.

the Iraq War was an illegal war based on lies... led to the death of over a million and destabilized the whole region leading to the rise of ISIS and tens of thousands more deaths

No... the Iran War in 2026 doesn't compare.

You're telling me the invasion of Iran is not an illegal war based on lies? Just for starters, how about "two weeks from having a nuclear weapon."

Can you give me a cite for "death of over a million"? Here's [iThe Independent] saying the number is more like 300,000, although it admits that The Lancet puts the number of civilian deaths at 600K. Still not a million, let alone over. And here's NBC putting the number of civilian deaths at around 200K and the number of US servicemember deaths at 4,492 (they don't give a number for US contractors or Iraqi military, but I'd be a substantial amount that number is less than 800K).

Also, you're telling me that the Iran adventure has not destabilized the region? Have you at all been keeping up with the news?

As for comparisons, I know you believe, and have believed from around Day 3, that the Iran thingie (you do know it's impermissible to call it a war, right?) is over. But many of us are not seeing that. Perhaps we should wait until the thing is actually over before we compare body counts.

Finally, one of your repeated statements in support of Mr. Trump's Big Adventure is that those awful Iranian ayatollahs killed a bunch of Iranian protestors. Perhaps you were not around in the run up to Mr. Bush's Daddy-whompin', but one of the big justifications for that was that Hussein KILLED HIS OWN PEOPLE. Also, y'know, weapons of mass destruction, including, but not limited to the nuclear in a matter of days or weeks.

If you believe that war was illegal, I'm utterly at a loss to understand how you can support this one. Both wars of aggression. Both based on lies. Both led by profoundly stupid, profoundly insecure men.

I used to lament that if I lived to be 80, he'd have been preznit for fully 10% of my lifetime. Little did I know there would be a whole other level of awful to extend that even longer (never mind I won't make it to 80)!

Now after the 🍊🐖💩 of terror Bush, jr. he is a statesman that still cared about the American people.

And did not profit off the presidency !

Admitted member of a Secret Society! But, Dems are The Deep-State?

DT is the best thing to ever happen for W.

Knowing he killed over 100,000 Iraqis?

I never thought the day would come that I should like to remark that GW Bush was not a traitor and he did have an understanding
of God and country.

Most unpopular president - Shrub was in the high 20s by the end of 2008. Trump still has him by 10 points.
Worst war - Tough to say. You can even argue Vietnam was worse than either of them.

The rest I'll give you, although Reagan is probably second to Trump in favoring the wealthy.

are the only things that keep Reagan from being the worst president in the past half-century.

He will always be remembered some what. Talk about your useless turds. But there has to be a second useless turd as well as a first one. So far he is second.

Certain to get his just consequences once dems had any power?

Good times.

This, btw, is the reality check/reminder for those that think anything is going to happen to Trump from a prosecution standpoint. There will be precisely zero justice.