what i really want to do is convince them that voting DEMOCRATIC PARTY is what they should be doing, but if you can't really do that without getting to "you should vote" first.

We don’t.

This is an example of the ignorance and stupidity of the American voter; of voters who are apathetic and disengaged.

The likes of Trump is the consequence of Americans’ lack of political acumen and contempt for the democratic process.

It's why American democracy is in jeopardy and will eventually fail.

It's sure crumbling now, and at a rate that is bound to show itself to everyone no matter how far in the clouds their heads are.
Soon it will be obvious that Jesus hasn't returned, no one raptured, and that food, healthcare, safe infrastructure, jobs, and income are diminished or gone. One can blame others, but that won't make them or our society any better.
We, as "The People" have a responsibility to participate in our own government/society. We have handed way too much off to the top percentile and they have no interest in a strong social structure.

The "elephant" in the room is the unconscionable concentration of wealth, which parties either can't or won't address.

But actions count, and there is a clear distinction between the good that Democrats do and the swill that the GOP does.

That gets lost in the personality politics, character assassination, lies, diversions (see below) and deliberate shit-throwing.

I used to chide a boss as he assessed candidates on the basis of "what's in this for me?," but at least he was being objective. And this was pre-internet, anyway. But even on that selfish a basis, the average person has a clear choice. They just choose poorly, following their prejudices, carefully cultivated. How else could they put up with lies and contradictions the size of the earth itself?






People are easily deceived into voting against their own interests.

As for the malaise regarding politics, the GOP has deliberately stalemated legislative progress for decades. For what? To prove that a dictator would be more effective? "Make the trains run on time?" They were actually supporters of civil rights until they got that "better idea". From hell, but it has worked well for them.

Fascist playbook.

they all eventually have evolved or outright failed. Nothing lasts forever.... nothing.

which is NOT to say - that any efforts to maintenance, improvement or preservation - is foolish or in vain.

And sometimes it pays to examine what were are really trying to say ...
Rather than just attempts to sound clever and weighty.

am not expending any of my time.
(you go ahead and do you)

This kind of trenchant and obdurate ignorance - is completely self inflicted, and most likely a result of one or more pathologies, in service of a particular ego.

Oh ... And of course Jimmy Carter and Donald Trump are - cut from precisely the same pattern and cloth ... How could one not see ... ?

Remain detached emotionally and ask them the same questions you just brought up regarding people who have been hurt by Trump who would not have been hurt by Harris and ask. Ask them, in a calm, thought-engaging tone, if people that Trump has hurt would agree that votes don't matter. Make it a thought problem since this person claims to be engaging in deep thought.

Or, just laugh. The laughter says it all without words, that this person's comments can't possibly be seriously thought out.

Another thought occurred to me. Those comments about always being influenced by someone else are just describing life. There are always other views, opinions, perspectives.

They complain about losing freedom to think for themselves because other people are telling them what to think, but they have the freedom to disagree. Sounds like this person is unhappy that no one agrees 100% with their views. So, what? That's life. It's called diversity. Should people be clones? Where is the freedom in that?

Regarding greed, it's a human trait to want things for yourself. Greed is a matter of degrees. Does someone want everything, leaving nothing for anyone else? Or can they recognize that others want things, too, and work toward supplying enough for all people? Greed isn't always about material things, either. Some are incessantly greedy for attention, praise, and adoration, sucking all the air from a room. Others can let other people shine, too, and be genuinely happy for them.

Just a variation on bothsiderism. It removes the responsibility of taking sides.
Is there such a thing as a moral choice? If yes, are were obligated to make that choice. Will that choice always be black and white? If the choice is unclear does that relieve us from the obligation of making it?
Is political action a moral choice?
And so on.
But it won't work. As I said people take this position because they want to feel superior to the sheep and because they want to avoid the responsibility of taking sides and the work of making hard choices.
They reduce politics to the trolley problem.

that objectively show that Democratic presidents are far better for the country than Rs. Don't know if that would help but it's out there.

Unfortunately, there are some on the left that push that false narrative as well. How many times do we hear them say they'll hold their nose and vote for the Democratic candidate? One even compared voting for Pres. Biden to eating a shit sandwich.

It's more effective to encourage voting by people who have already recognized that the Republican Party is harmful to their health and happiness.

I've met too many atheists who have rejected the crappy anti-intellectual religions they were raised in but still carry all the baggage that comes with those religions.