Where are they now.

FWIW, he let all this happen on purpose.

with being pro-Netanyahu.

Not sure if YOU are ... but some people seem to have.

I'm just shaking my head how the allegedly "pro-Palestinian" folks (not specifically at DU) really helped their alleged cause SO much by campaigning against Biden and Harris. ( , in case it's not obvious)

Israel's supporters defended Netanyahu's actions - his brutal and illegal way of waging "war". The quotation marks indicate my view that this was not a war by any stretch of the imagination. It was an outright slaughter of defenceless civilians. At least 20,000 children alone. Just THINK for a moment, about the level of sadistic brutality and the unimaginable human suffering and tragedy behind that little-thought-about statistic.

In this context, I don't care if someone opposed Netanyahu's politics or ideology before the Gaza genocide - I only care whether they opposed his ACTIONS - and spoke up as the children were being slaughtered. If they didn't, of course they were pro-Netanyahu in the only sense that really counted.

I shake my head too, but not at the "naivete" of pro-Palestinians as you are implying. Quite contrary, I am gob-smacked by the obtuseness (or something else) of people who think if Harris had been elected, this would have ended differently. She would have tried, she is a decent person and I will never believe she would have willfully let this happen. But by that time, more than 2 years into the slaughter and destruction - Gaza's fate was already baked in and other options would be closed to her. The time to have changed Gaza's trajectory was soon after those 2,000 lb bombs were first dropped on civilians' heads and homes. Sadly, tragically, and horrifically, that did not happen. So here were are and Palestinians - as always - will pay an awful price, even worse than they already have.

And Israel's supporters, as well as do-nothing Western leaders, all will have played a role in letting this injustice and tragedy unfold.

would have been OH SO MUCH BETTER ON SO MANY THINGS.

Before getting into the larger discussion - back to the OP - what could America do to stop the policy mentioned in the OP? Wouldn't Harris at least have TRIED, instead of outright supporting Netanyahu's plan? Clearly TSF is 100% on board with ethnic cleansing. I am quite certain Harris would not be. Whether Harris would be effective at stopping it, I do not know. But she would not be enthusiastically looking to help Netanyahu do it. Would that not be an improvement?

Now, the larger discussion:

There are uncountable tragedies occurring around the globe - NOT ONLY in Gaza. There are some we can influence more than others.

WE HAD TWO FUCKING CHOICES IN 2025. One would have improved on MANY things, one would be ... well doing all the AWFUL CRAP that the SICK FUCK is doing. According to your own post - GAZA SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN THE DECIDER. If the result in Gaza would be the same regardless which of the TWO CHOICES were chosen - as you say (I strongly disagree, but it is irrelevant to my point) - then GAZA SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN THE DECIDER. For anyone who actually cares about humanity. And therefore, amplifying disgusting rhetoric about the DEMOCRAT (the non-Trump candidate) based on perceived failure to be pure enough on GAZA - either fucking stupid or fucking evil.

( Unless a person in Gaza is more valuable than a person somewhere else in the world? A Gazan child matters more than a Ukrainian or Venezuelan or child literally anywhere else that the US has (well used to have) a positive influence? )

My problems with so-called "pro Palestinians" are

a) they often (not all and not always, thankfully; but the loudest ones, always) completely ignore the depravity of Hamas as a major instigator of the current cataclysm in Gaza.
b) they were willing to throw the rest of the world under the bus, back up and roll over again and again and again, because they either
* believed as you stated that, at best, Harris would do no better for GAZA than Trump would - AND apparently they believe, "FUCK THE REST OF THE WORLD".
* OR were Trump supporters all along and therefore either naive / stupid, or evil.

I do not support Netanyahu or his actions to address the problem - but I am tired of the "blame Democrats" faction of so-called Palestinian supporters.

You also misspelled "Accountability" in your last sentence.

It's not easy or comfortable to come out straight to the point about Democrats' accountability re Gaza. I like being on this site. But apparently being nuanced and giving the tiniest hint of accountability leaves one open to misinterpretation or misrepresentation. So what the hell, here it goes.

The Biden Administration, like any administration, is responsible for its policy decisions - you would agree, right? Well, it badly miscalculated on Gaza by backing Netanyahu unconditionally even after only a fool would not see what his real goals were and after tens of thousands of civilian murders. Regardless of whether you supported Israel in its assault on Gaza or not, you have to acknowledge that the party's base did not agree with Biden's foreign policy on Gaza. Poll after poll made that clear. But the base was ignored.

As a result, It was the PARTY BASE, not the protesters, not the "loud" ones, not the Abandon Harris movement but the party rank and file that caused Harris to lose. In a sense, it was the base that "abandoned" Harris. Seven million of Joe Biden voters did not show up for Harris. At least one poll found the cause to be Gaza. Not misogyny or racism - especially not since most lost voters were minorities, women and youth for God's sake!

If as it is said Republicans will crawl over broken glass to get to the voting booth, Democrats would do the same I'm sure. But Democrats' motivation is FOR something that makes the world a bit better and stands on principle while Repukes' motivation is AGAINST the "other", against progress and change and entirely transactional, principles be damned.

So why could they not vote for Harris in 2024? It should be pretty clear. Perhaps think of it as these voters were simply unwilling or unable to step over the bodies of so many dead children on the way to the voting booth to vote for a party that did not live up to its own standards and avowed convictions or principles. Loss of faith is the worst kind of loss at election time. In that kind of funk, disillusionment and low morale, it's hard for people to see the bigger picture.

Israel's defenders and those who want to blame Palestinians' supporters for Harris' loss simply have no idea or don't want to understand how deeply the Gaza genocide (it is what it is) has affected ordinary Democrats in the first two years after October 7th. But that should have been known and understood by party leadership and that's where the failure occurred.

I'm tired of dancing around the accountability issue and I'm also tired of having even the tiniest, most polite and diplomatic way of calling for accountability being railroaded into another exercise in blaming the pro-Palestinian movement instead. Put the "blame" as you call it where it belongs, not on the shoulders of those who opposed what they saw as a genocide.

And to clear up your misinterpretation of what I said: I did not say that Harris would do no better for Gaza than Trump, I said her options were already limited and Gaza's fate was already baked in by the time of the election. You want to think about why her options were limited. It's what the non-voters would have been thinking about and why they made the decision they did.

There were a number here who justified what Netanyahu was doing and saying we had to support Israel no matter if they were killing children in Gaza. And there were others here who were opposed to supporting war crimes. It strikes me as rather vulgar for anyone to blame those opposed to war crimes for the loss of the 2024 presidential election. And I say that as someone who campaigned and voted for VP Harris, yet recognized that those opposed to supporting war crimes were correct.

What do you suppose would be the appropriate response to the 10/7 actions perpetrated by Hamas?
No, I am NOT a Netanyahu supporter, and I wonder just who here has been?
I understand the "no calling out" rule on DU, but perhaps those who did support him then will speak up now in this thread.

to kill the Hamas leaders, without killing others.

But are you considering that Hamas was embedded with the general population of Gaza (schools, hospitals?)
I have not seen comments about this from anti- Israel posts and I am not accusing any people here who excoriate Israel's actions as supporting Hamas' terrorist actions.

To be clear, I honestly am 100% against moving any Gazan population.
Netanyahu (Trump) proposal is just evil. I fully support a two state solution.

that Hamas leaders were in the general population. There is a difference between the heroic attempt to free the Israeli athletes at the 1972 Olympics, and what has been -- and continues to be done -- in both Gaza and the West Bank. I think targeted strikes against individuals is a better response than indiscriminate killing of innocent populations to take out enemies and clear the way for the Jarad's to invest in. Just my opinion, and I respect that others can see it differently.

I am not pro-Hamas in any way. I can be pro-Israel but anti-Netanyahu just as I am pros-USA but anti-the felon. I think that Netanyahu has damaged Israel, just as the felon has damaged our country. The two-state solution is clearly the only real way forward.

We agree completely.
Let's face it, Netanyahu acted the way he did in order to avoid going to jail.

It says oh he's just a common criminal who, in order to escape justice, all of a sudden decided he was willing to commit war crimes and crimes against humanity. Genocide even. But only to escape justice and for no other reason. That is bollocks, though of course highly damning even if it were the complete truth. But it nicely serves to put the blame all on Netanyahu - one man.

Nope. It wasn't just Netanyahu.

I think the full truth is far uglier. October 7th was a "gift" to his personal agenda and ideology and those of people like him in Israel's right-wing, and in ISRAELI SOCIETY who were willing to do anything to rid "Eretz Israel" of Palestinians in pursuit of the Greater Israel project. We see now just how far they were willing to go.

Netanyahu is a practiced liar and he was very good at convincing people, that Israel had no other choice - Hamas is embedded everywhere! Oh really? In every sewer, every emergency and maternity unit of every hospital; in fact in every life-saving area of every hospital, every medical clinic, every single university (16, now all gone), bakery, power station, water treatment plant, nearly every single Palestinian home, every water tower, every aid warehouse, every mosque, every children's park, every antiquity heritage site even?? Hamas it seems was in every structure and institution necessary to sustain human life. And every civilian that got slaughtered in their home or orher places was a Human Shield!!


To swallow all this whole I will never understand. Do you still not SEE it was all a lie?? Lies delivered glibly and smoothly to lull the conscience of those who could not or did not want to SEE - until Gaza was in ruins and his and Likud et al's plans since before October 7th could come to fruition.

the discussion was about people here (on DU) who support Netanyahu.
Of course he wouldn't be in power if it weren't for those who supported him in Israel and here in the US. Those are the people who do support him.

Supporting the existence of Israel as a sovereign Jewish state does not equal supporting Netanyahu or the right wing of the Israeli government.

Without going into grievances about the plight of Palestinians, what do you think Israel's proper response to 10/7 should have been?

I feel like this war started with a war crime by Hamas. Even if we say Israel is committing war crimes in retaliation, then don't we just have two sides doing the same thing to each other? Does it make a difference that one side is more powerful?

Plus look at how we fight wars. Fuck, we killed something like 100,000 people and left a million homeless in ONE night firebombing Tokyo. And its not like this was a one time thing. But now we're going to get all moral?

We were not sending weapons to Hamas. Start there, and you enter a big room. And no one but you mentioned lecturing.

I don't know when standing up for the right to life and basic human rights for all and against indiscriminate slaughter became known as "lecturing". But if that's what it is now, I'll gladly and defiantly go on "lecturing"!

You seem to be saying that one war crime deserves another or at least can be tolerated and that we shouldn't get our pretty little heads too worked up about it especially since we have no moral standing - even though we allowed, collaborated with and armed the "more powerful" side to slaughter civilians for years, while October 7th was one day that we had absolutely nothing to do with. And even though the international community developed laws and conventions specifically to try to prevent more wars and war crimes like the Tokyo or Dresden firebombing and protect civilians - but what's that to the US and Israel anyway?

Needless to say I disagree with your arguments.

It's interesting though that you dismiss those concerned with war crimes and human rights as lecturing "moralists" while at the same time imply that we have no MORAL standing given our own war crimes. So is "morality" important or not?

once they are getting what they want, which is what this is...them, getting what they want: the dehumanization and probable death of Palestinians.

But, the right wing settlers and rich men will get real estate!

Not only are you telling people to leave their generational homes, but you're sending them to an already inhabited area that's going through a civil war?

What group of generational inhabitants will the Gazans - and later West Bank Palestinians, most likely - displace so Israel can build all those luxury seaside resorts and find established fertile farmland to settle their problematic ultra-orthodox citizens at?

Parts of Gaza were refugee camps to begin with. That placed additional stress on the local population as a influx of angry, confused young men expecting a life in the family farm or at the family business are in a new place with little chance of employment outside of the little work they might be able to beg or cobble together.

You want to know what causes terrorism and criminal cartels?
It's not just the greedy, hateful old men with a political axe to grind who fund "movements" or equally greedy, amoral young men who want to live like kings.

It's the surplus of young people with few options for a stable, fulfilling future, who are watching their families being treated like animals who can easily be bought by pennies or promise of heaven convinced that "service" against the enemies of those greedy men with money will help their families to survive.

Kushner's deal from Trump's 1st Administration