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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsA crazy theory on what Johnson and Thune may be doing here.
If Congress adjourns its session before the 10-day period (in which the bill must be signed) expires and the President has not signed the bill, it does not become law. This action is known as a pocket veto, and it cannot be overridden by Congress.
Congress is already planning on being closed all next week for Thanksgiving. If Johnson and Thune adjourn their session in the next few days (for the Thanksgiving Holiday) and Trump doesn't sign it before they adjourn, then that serves as a veto and the bill is dead. The whole process would have to begin all over again.
It would not be a good look for them, but I would not put it past them.
It's highly unlikely that they are planning this - they aren't that clever - but I don't think it can be ruled out until or unless Trump actually signs the bill.
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biophile
(1,044 posts)But they are at once stupid and cunning. They do know how to pervert procedural rules to suit their needs. What you suggest is not beyond them.
Raven123
(7,333 posts)
Wiz Imp
(8,251 posts)A pocket veto is not an actual veto but a procedural maneuver to avoid accountability.
From wikipedia:
Normally, if the president does not sign a bill, it becomes law after ten days (not including Sundays) as if they had signed it. A pocket veto occurs when a bill fails to become law because the president does not sign it within the ten-day period and cannot return the bill to Congress because Congress is no longer in session. Article 1, Section 7 of the U.S. Constitution states:
If any Bill shall not be returned by the President within ten days (Sundays excepted) after it shall have been presented to him, the same shall be a Law, in like manner as if he had signed it, unless the Congress by their Adjournment prevent its return, in which case it shall not be a Law.
EdmondDantes_
(1,172 posts)Passing so unanimously suggests it wouldn't die that easily as it wasn't a hard fought coalition.
Wiz Imp
(8,251 posts)the republicans clearly didn't honestly support it and may only "support" it if/when it comes up for a floor vote.
EdmondDantes_
(1,172 posts)Wiz Imp
(8,251 posts)If any Republicans agreed with the bill besides the 4 that signed the petition then they would have signed the petition. They clearly didn't honestly support the bill, they were just terrified of being labeled as pedophile protectors if they voted no.
Besides that, if you watched any of the debate before the vote, you would have heard Republicans spend their entire time trashing the bill. Why would the trash a bill they supported?
Sorry, but it's obvious that the vast majority of Republicans do not honestly support the bill, they're just terrified of the consequences of voting no. The only times they will "support" releasing the Epstein files is if they have to go on the record with an actual vote. They've already proven that.
Raven123
(7,333 posts)Would be a heckuva gamble for Trump. Will just anger people more. Hope he thinks twice about such a move.
Iggo
(49,431 posts)dpibel
(3,717 posts)
Jerry2144
(3,088 posts)The electrical signals behind his eyeballs in that mass of fat and pig feces seem to cancel out external thoughts. How elese do you explain how stupid MAGA has become in 10 years
dpibel
(3,717 posts)
niyad
(128,605 posts)appmanga
(1,312 posts)...to prevent adjournments, in part to keep Trump from making recess appointments and to keep the minority in the House from doing whatever is possible under their rules. I fully expect the Senate to continue to do this since some weird, unvetted Nazi Cabinet member is going to make all Republicans look bad.
bottomofthehill
(9,313 posts)The House will not recess there will be proforma sessions next Tuesday and Friday. There won’t be a recess
bluestarone
(20,826 posts)Bondi. I'm sure of that. (i may eat crow, but that;s my thinking)
Wiz Imp
(8,251 posts)The bill reads:
(A) contain personally identifiable information of victims or victims’ personal and medical files and similar files the disclosure of which would constitute a clearly unwarranted invasion of personal privacy;
(B) depict or contain child sexual abuse materials (CSAM) as defined under 18 U.S.C. 2256 and prohibited under 18 U.S.C. 2252–2252A;
(C) would jeopardize an active federal investigation or ongoing prosecution, provided that such withholding is narrowly tailored and temporary;
(D) depict or contain images of death, physical abuse, or injury of any person; or
(E) contain information specifically authorized under criteria established by an Executive order to be kept secret in the interest of national defense or foreign policy and are in fact properly classified pursuant to such Executive order.
(2) All redactions must be accompanied by a written justification published in the Federal Register and submitted to Congress.
(3) To the extent that any covered information would otherwise be redacted or withheld as classified information under this section, the Attorney General shall declassify that classified information to the maximum extent possible.
(A) If the Attorney General makes a determination that covered information may not be declassified and made available in a manner that protects the national security of the United States, including methods or sources related to national security, the Attorney General shall release an unclassified summary for each of the redacted or withheld classified information.
(4) All decisions to classify any covered information after July 1, 2025 shall be published in the Federal Register and submitted to Congress, including the date of classification, the identity of the classifying authority, and an unclassified summary of the justification.
Note it states that the withholding of information must be narrowly tailored and temporary.
Withholding information about Trump without Trump being a target of an investigation would clearly violate the law. (Not saying they wouldn't try to use that excuse, but the people who crafted the bill - presumably Massie & Khanna- knew what they were doing with the language to make it tough for Trump to get around)
bluestarone
(20,826 posts)I'm hard core Bondi is gonna stop this. We'll see.
vapor2
(3,458 posts)I think if they do anything nefarious the survivors will reveal names
Wiz Imp
(8,251 posts)Her statement begins at 1:08
tritsofme
(19,742 posts)Wiz Imp
(8,251 posts)Just because they haven't done it for a while, doesn't mean they can't do it now. Personally, I think it would backfire on them if they did, but I still wouldn't completely rule it out.
There have been over 1000 pocket vetoes since the beginning of the country.
President || Pocket Vetoes
Donald J. Trump (2025-2029) || 0
Joseph R. Biden, Jr. (2021-2025) || 0
Donald J. Trump (2017-2021) || 0
Barack Obama (2009-2017) || 0
George W. Bush (2001-2009) || 0
William J. Clinton (1993-2001) || 1
George H. W. Bush (1989-1993) || 15
Ronald Reagan (1981-1989) || 39
Jimmy Carter (1977-1981) || 18
Gerald R. Ford (1974-1977) || 18
Richard M. Nixon (1969-1974) || 17
Lyndon B. Johnson (1963-1969) || 14
John F. Kennedy (1961-1963) || 9
Dwight D. Eisenhower (1953-1961) || 108
Harry S. Truman (1945-53) || 70
Franklin D. Roosevelt (1933-1945) || 263
Herbert Hoover (1929-1933) || 16
Calvin Coolidge (1923-1929) || 30
Warren G. Harding(1921-1923) || 1
Woodrow Wilson (1913-1921) || 11
William H. Taft (1909-1913) || 9
Theodore Roosevelt (1901-1909) || 40
William McKinley (1897-1901) || 36
Grover Cleveland (1893-1897) || 128
Benjamin Harrison (1889-1893) || 25
Grover Cleveland (1885-1889) || 110
Chester A. Arthur (1881-1885) || 8
James A. Garfield (1881) || 0
Rutherford B. Hayes (1877-1881) || 1
Ulysses S. Grant (1869-1877) || 48
Andrew Johnson (1865-1869) || 8
Abraham Lincoln (1861-1865) || 5
James Buchanan (1857-1861) || 3
Franklin Pierce (1853-1857) || 0
Millard Fillmore (1850-1853) || 0
Zachary Taylor (1849-1850) || 0
James K. Polk (1845-1849) || 1
John Tyler (1841-1845) || 4
William H. Harrison (1841) || 0
Martin Van Buren (1837-1841) || 1
Andrew Jackson (1829-1837) || 7
John Q. Adams (1825-1829) || 0
James Monroe (1817-1825) || 0
James Madison (1809-1817) || 2
Thomas Jefferson (1801-1809) || 0
John Adams (1797-1801) || 0
George Washington (1789-1797) || 0
Total || 1066
tritsofme
(19,742 posts)Both chambers will continue to meet in pro forma sessions, Senate Democrats have not agreed to a formal adjournment, so this can’t happen, the pocket is sewn shut.
karynnj
(60,689 posts)he set the vote much earlier than needed to have it before Thanksgiving. If is not signed before they adjourn, they may not make the 10 days.
However, that might make things worse for Trump as he told Republicans to vote for it If they need to do it again, I think it unlikely that it won't pass easily again. And Trump looks terrible.
niyad
(128,605 posts)pedorapist' sudden turn around?
Prairie Gates
(6,862 posts)Trump, Johnson, and Thune would all be the obvious culprits for circumventing the bill. You don't make a giant point of passing a bill damn near unanimously to play games with a pocket veto.
LudwigPastorius
(13,838 posts)The DOJ has sanitized the files for Trump's protection.
Heck, Bondi & Company have probably scratched out Trump's name and inserted Bill Clinton's on most of the incriminating stuff.
Wiz Imp
(8,251 posts)There are plenty of people who have seen the files. Who knows how many people were working on the investigation under the Biden DOJ which Trump/Bondi stopped immediately upon taking office but I'm sure there were a lot of people working on it. The Biden DOJ was deciding who to charge and with what crimes. I'm sure there will be whistleblowers revealing the truth if necessary. Oh, and the bill itself details the only information that can be legitimately withheld or redacted. The only info that can be legally redacted is names and personal info of the victims. The names of any persons who had contact with Epstein that are mentioned in the files should be released. Embarrassment is not a valid reason for redaction.
(A) contain personally identifiable information of victims or victims’ personal and medical files and similar files the disclosure of which would constitute a clearly unwarranted invasion of personal privacy;
(B) depict or contain child sexual abuse materials (CSAM) as defined under 18 U.S.C. 2256 and prohibited under 18 U.S.C. 2252–2252A;
(C) would jeopardize an active federal investigation or ongoing prosecution, provided that such withholding is narrowly tailored and temporary;
(D) depict or contain images of death, physical abuse, or injury of any person; or
(E) contain information specifically authorized under criteria established by an Executive order to be kept secret in the interest of national defense or foreign policy and are in fact properly classified pursuant to such Executive order.
(2) All redactions must be accompanied by a written justification published in the Federal Register and submitted to Congress.
(3) To the extent that any covered information would otherwise be redacted or withheld as classified information under this section, the Attorney General shall declassify that classified information to the maximum extent possible.
(A) If the Attorney General makes a determination that covered information may not be declassified and made available in a manner that protects the national security of the United States, including methods or sources related to national security, the Attorney General shall release an unclassified summary for each of the redacted or withheld classified information.
Oh and Epstein victims have indicated they are ready to name names.
LudwigPastorius
(13,838 posts)Wiz Imp
(8,251 posts)Insanity. Even many MAGAs are not going to buy scrubbed files. And you're completely ignoring that many people who know the truth will be willing to tell the public that truth. This is guaranteed to end poorly for Trump.
Turbineguy
(39,651 posts)where that evil day of reckoning is postponed every day is a victory.
Wiz Imp
(8,251 posts)appmanga
(1,312 posts)...(in their view) from the minority. I suspect this will continue despite the holiday.