General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsSo now we know Dementia T knows absolutely nothing about building anything in a city
Who gets away without an asbestos permit ANYWHERE let alone in a Historical District. When our house burned down the asbestos abatement was the most expensive item ($80,000!) on the insurance bill for the rebuild.
What a complete clusterfucking IDIOT!! And people exposed to deadly disease!
Oh wait. That is what he does! He is a genius at Death!
chouchou
(2,617 posts)He thinks it's some Award.
spanone
(140,687 posts)Grim Chieftain
(923 posts)pat_k
(12,485 posts)Violating laws on demotion and remediation are a big fucking deal because of the risks to the people doing the work and in the surrounding area.
Take with whatever grains of salt you apply to all AI, but here's what Gemini had to say.
Question 1: How long after improperly demolishing a large structure with asbestos do the dust and fibers endanger people within a mile radius?
Question 2: How long after improperly demolishing a large structure with asbestos do the dust and fibers endanger people within a three-mile radius?
On edit: Class action suit on behalf of everyone who lives, works, or visited the vicinity for the pain and suffering caused by fears related to having been exposed and a fund for direct compensation and pain and suffering of those who become ill in the future.
Another edit:
Still no information on regulatory compliance
https://www.asbestosdiseaseawareness.org/newsroom/blogs/white-house-demolition-risk/
Diraven
(1,742 posts)He'll use this as an excuse to demolish the rest of the White House because it's contaminated now.
pat_k
(12,485 posts)Another query: What is involved in cleaning up after an improperly demolished structure that has asbestos?
Stop Work and Secure the Area: Immediately cease all activities and prevent access to the site. The area must be clearly marked with warning signs ("Danger, Asbestos, Cancer and Lung Disease Hazard, Authorized Personnel Only" ) to keep unauthorized individuals away.
.
Report the Incident: The incident must be reported to the appropriate authorities, which may include local or state air quality agencies and the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) or Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA). These agencies will provide guidance on regulations and next steps.
Hire Certified Professionals: An accredited asbestos inspector must assess the site to determine the extent of the contamination and identify all asbestos-containing materials (ACM). Subsequently, a licensed asbestos abatement contractor with specially trained and certified workers must be hired to conduct the cleanup.
Establish a Controlled Work Area: Professionals will seal off the contaminated area using plastic sheeting and duct tape, disable HVAC systems to prevent fiber spread, and set up a decontamination unit (a series of rooms for removing protective gear and showering). Negative air pressure units with HEPA filters are used to ensure that air flows into the containment area, trapping fibers.
Seinan Sensei
(1,261 posts)that he calls White House staff
all will get cancer and lung disease?
pat_k
(12,485 posts)I can't find any numbers for short-term intense exposure -- just that it "increases risk," of asbestosis, lung cancer, and mesothelioma,
with some qualifying as "slight increase" depending on concentration in the air and size of the fibers.
It sounds like longer term exposure ranges from something like 1 in 100 to 1 in 1000.
Re: Fiber size is related to the type of disease you are at risk for. Came across this blurb somewhere:
Dixiegrrrl
(162 posts)A bitter irony.
pat_k
(12,485 posts)If they didn't do proper remediation before demolition, yeah sounds like asbestos might be circulating.
And if they did do it properly, where is the required documentation?
https://www.asbestosdiseaseawareness.org/newsroom/blogs/white-house-demolition-risk/
ADAO Calls on the White House to Publish All Safety, Inspection Reports and Demonstrate Its Commitment to Prevention, Accountability, and Public Health
...
The project, reportedly designed by McCrery Architects, is being led by firms such as Clark Construction and AECOM, both known for large-scale federal work. Firms with this level of experience should follow all applicable EPA and OSHA regulations for asbestos and lead testing, abatement, and worker protection.
...
The National Capital Planning Commission has not granted final project authorization and is currently inactive due to the federal shutdown. No oversight body has publicly confirmed that environmental safety reviews have been conducted.
mopinko
(73,188 posts)not his, tho. a national course.
Dave Bowman
(6,262 posts)degrading everything he touches.
twodogsbarking
(16,796 posts)Wednesdays
(21,342 posts)twodogsbarking
(16,796 posts)Mosby
(19,173 posts)And some was taken to a commercial property in Hyattsville.
Attilatheblond
(7,824 posts)and free dump sites! He'll tout how much money he saved taxpayers with this move.
tinrobot
(11,879 posts)He did the same thing to the Bonwit Teller building, which sat on the Trump Tower site.
The building had masterpiece Art Deco sculptural reliefs that were slated to go to a museum. Rather than spend the money to save them, he jackhammered them to bits in the middle of the night.
Asbestos aside, Trump knew that the East Wing also contained tons of history that needed saving. So he demolished it before anyone could step in.
LoveTheDU
(138 posts)Haven't seen this story yet
LoveTheDU
(138 posts)BurnDoubt
(1,251 posts)and can't really be official Presidential duty, particularly because he's apparently broken every law relating to the project.
LOCK HIM UP!!!!!
pwb
(12,417 posts)carted that asbestos throughout the Capitol in uncovered dump trucks.
maxsolomon
(37,841 posts)But I'd imagine the GC and Demo company got liability waivers for Hazmat removal.
Or maybe the East Wing didn't have Asbestos. No one knows.
Ruby the Liberal
(26,576 posts)I'm going on a limb to say there is an almost 100% chance - it was the go-to top line insulation and fireproofing product until the late 1970s due to its unquestioned effectiveness. The military's heavy use of asbestos in WWII led to it becoming the product of choice in commercial and then residential properties in the decades that followed.
No way FDR skimped on that for something far less capable.
My bet is that the second floor (at least) was sprayed into oblivion - ceilings, walls, pipes, ducts, flooring... Likely lead paint as well, but as that is exposed, it may have already been addressed over the years. Until disturbed, Asbestos is relatively benign - things get sketchy when the walls are opened up.
A family member died some years ago from asbestos mesothelioma. We found out back then how insidious and prevalent this stuff is.
One thing that always stuck with me was that any civilian building built or remodeled between 1945 and 1978 should be evaluated for asbestos along with lead paint for remediation before starting any R&R work. Its made for interesting real estate negotiations over the years - asbestos and lead paint assessments are common requirements in sales contracts here in the Northeast where knob and tube wiring is still (shockingly) in use.
Wow this got long, but was surprisingly cathartic. Mesothelioma is a horrible way to die and this east wing demolition has been bringing back a lot of memories in my family - its the first thing we thought of when we saw the pictures.
maxsolomon
(37,841 posts)My 1949 house, for instance, has asbestos in the mastic used to hold linoleum tiles on the basement slab. I'm leaving it alone.
But we just don't know definitively that the GC and Demo Contractors ignored it. It's also very likely they signed NDAs and won't ever reveal whether they even tested for it.
3Hotdogs
(14,817 posts)If I want to renovate my 98 year old house, I call a contractor. it is up to that person to go to town hall and get permits.
Ruby the Liberal
(26,576 posts)The onus is on the property owner to ensure that permitting has been pulled.
As with everything else Trump, while the contractor may have risked their license (and health of their work crews), it will be We The People who will be footing the bill for his actions.
Ironically, for the cost of this throne room, each citizen of this country could have been given $1m. Instead, it is going to cost us untold millions to clean up yet another self-inflicted wound from entitlement without regard to consequence.
Sorry for the rant. Its all so infuriating.
dickthegrouch
(4,171 posts)Ironically, for the cost of this throne room, each citizen of this country could have been given $1m.
If 300m people and $300m, thats $1.00 each, not $1m each.
Or are there only 300 real citizens remaining since birthright citizenships demise?
Ruby the Liberal
(26,576 posts)Thanks for catching that.
maxsolomon
(37,841 posts)That is how they were able to go full-speed ahead with the Demo.
canetoad
(19,851 posts)As a developer, it's his job to know, or to pay professionals who know, who are qualified to sign off on the work.
He's just blowing raspberries at anyone who stands in the way of what he wants and how he wants to do it. Be fine if everyone could do that.
Ms. Toad
(37,994 posts)I have no doubt abatement was needed, and was not done. But I have not seen anything yet to confirm it.
PATRICK
(12,323 posts)a Trump Tower?
Farmer-Rick
(12,295 posts)It's one of the reasons very little alterations have been done on the east wing since the 1950s.
And no, the company pedo Trump hired is not in any way able or authorized to do any asbestos removal. The Washington Post reported that ACECO, the company hired to do the work, is not licensed to abate asbestos in Washington, D.C. The Department of Licensing and Consumer Protection has confirmed that the company voluntarily canceled its asbestos abatement license in August 2022.
So, pedo Trump and all the people withing a 3 mile area of the demolition will be suffering from lung conditions soon. It's hard to predict when the asbestos will make them ill or give them a deadly disease. But folks I knew in the Navy who were exposed to asbestos started suffering symptoms as soon as 1 year after exposure. Combine it with other lung issues like smoking, asthma or a severe virus like COVID, and pedo Trump has managed to make even more Americans suffer and die in excruciating illnesses.
And that asbestos is still floating around in the White House's air conditioning and heating units, all over the walls, floors and ceilings.
Marie Marie
(10,735 posts)and that it was wrong to ban it.