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Celerity

(53,101 posts)
Fri Nov 14, 2025, 09:08 AM Friday

Are We Humans or Homo Economicus? Why Economics Needs to Evolve Beyond Growth



Economics assumes we behave like chimps, but humans are far more cooperative—and our economic models must catch up.

https://www.socialeurope.eu/are-we-humans-or-homo-economicus-why-economics-needs-to-evolve-beyond-growth



Do you behave more like an ape or a human? If you have to share some money (or some raisins!), do you give away as little as possible and keep as much as you can for yourself, or do you share equally? Mainstream economic theory has traditionally worked on the basis that human behaviour can largely be explained in terms of inherent self-interest – a tendency to maximise gain for ourselves. Economists coined the term homo economicus, or “economic man”, for this conceptualisation of humans as rational and self-interested back in the nineteenth century, drawing on the assertions of John Stuart Mill and Adam Smith that we will want to do the least amount of work for the most amount of gain and that we cannot rely on the benevolence of others but must look out for ourselves.

Obviously, this is a simplistic presentation of our utilitarian tendencies, but it underpins assertions like those promulgated in Steven D. Levitt and Stephen J. Dubner’s 2005 book, Freakonomics – that our behaviour is shaped by our conscious and subconscious self-interest, what their book describes as “the hidden side of everything”.

Humans, however, are nowhere near that simple. But chimpanzees are – in behavioural experiments they perform exactly as economic theory suggests that humans will behave, acting as self-interested so-called “rational maximisers” in what is known as the Ultimatum Game. In this experiment, participants are paired and a known sum of money is given to one, the “proposer”, who must then divide it as they please with the “responder”. The responder accepts or rejects the offer. If rejected, neither gets anything; if accepted, they both keep the share of money offered.

Economic theory suggests that responders should accept any offer, however small, because there isn’t going to be a next time and something is better than nothing. And proposers should offer the smallest possible amount, just enough to get the responder to accept it, however derisory. When chimpanzees play the game (with raisins rather than cash), they behave exactly as the theory predicts: they will take what they are offered and are not sensitive to fairness.

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Are We Humans or Homo Economicus? Why Economics Needs to Evolve Beyond Growth (Original Post) Celerity Friday OP
Captive chimpanzees do that. I wonder what they do Phoenix61 Friday #1
Seriously, why do we need economics at all? -misanthroptimist Friday #2
Fretting about the costs is pointless? Redleg Friday #5
Cost is an abstract and limited construct -misanthroptimist Friday #7
It seems a big gulf between "ignoring costs" and the notion that "the entire idea is antiquated and unnessary" Redleg Sunday #9
"Cost" is indeed an abstract. -misanthroptimist 19 hrs ago #10
Many concepts are abstract but need not be ignored Redleg 3 hrs ago #11
Well worth the read leftstreet Friday #3
A good number of the more recent winners addressed the limitations of rationality Redleg Friday #4
Not sure it's valuable in the framework of Capitalism leftstreet Friday #6
I don't understand your point Redleg Sunday #8
Good Read malaise 3 hrs ago #12

Phoenix61

(18,637 posts)
1. Captive chimpanzees do that. I wonder what they do
Fri Nov 14, 2025, 09:22 AM
Friday

in the wild. The whole Alpha dog bs was based on caged wolves from separate packs interacting. We now know wild wolves don’t interact like that at all.

-misanthroptimist

(1,540 posts)
2. Seriously, why do we need economics at all?
Fri Nov 14, 2025, 10:24 AM
Friday

Across a vast range of products/services, we aren't even close to a subsistence economy. If we want more of these things we can simply produce them. Fretting about the cost in dollars is pointless.

-misanthroptimist

(1,540 posts)
7. Cost is an abstract and limited construct
Fri Nov 14, 2025, 01:56 PM
Friday

That is why economics has a concept called "externalities." The obvious conclusion is that economic costs are non-comprehensive, at best.

Even so, positive externalities are monetized quickly by whomever notices and can get up and running.

Negative externalities are ignored (see: Climate Change) or farmed out to the public sector. Either way, those costs are paid either through government programs, human suffering, or disasters of varying degrees.

So, in a sense we are already ignoring costs -those we don't like and make people rich. We simply ignore the economic impacts we don't like. That being the case, there is no reason we can't ignore the costs that we do like. And we should. The entire idea is antiquated and unnecessary.

Redleg

(6,748 posts)
9. It seems a big gulf between "ignoring costs" and the notion that "the entire idea is antiquated and unnessary"
Sun Nov 16, 2025, 10:37 AM
Sunday

Plus, you stated that those costs are paid or ignored. Is "cost" abstract to those people who can't afford to buy sufficient food or who get downsized due to adoption of AI or automation in the workplace? Is cost irrelevant to small business owners whose profit margins have shrunk due to tariffs imposed by the president?

Economics is about making choices and it should be about making choices that take into account moral principles such as utility, human rights, and distributive justice. Each of these principles addresses the notions of "costs" and "benefits" in their calculus.

-misanthroptimist

(1,540 posts)
10. "Cost" is indeed an abstract.
Mon Nov 17, 2025, 02:51 PM
19 hrs ago

What is the value of a dollar? It used to be based on gold (which itself is an arbitrary standard). The situation is even more abstract today with floating currency. A dollar is worth what large numbers of people think it's worth.

Therefore, a dollar has no intrinsic monetary value. Neither does gold. Economics is a game that most people on this planet are losing -badly in many cases. There is no particular need for it if we set aside the idiotic idea that one thing is "worth more" than another thing in any real way.

Redleg

(6,748 posts)
11. Many concepts are abstract but need not be ignored
Tue Nov 18, 2025, 06:29 AM
3 hrs ago

We live in an economy where we exchange our labor for pay and we use that pay to purchase things we value. Are values subjective? Certainly. Do we want to negotiate the price of everthing we buy? Not likely.

While I agree with your point that our current system has failed a good number of people, I don't really understand where your argument leads.

leftstreet

(38,349 posts)
3. Well worth the read
Fri Nov 14, 2025, 11:20 AM
Friday

Especially the section discussing how the Nobel Prize categories didn't originally include "Economics."
Decades later it was added to Physics, Chemistry, Physiology or Medicine, Literature and Peace, but it's stupidly taken seriously.

LOL if Hayek and Friedman can win it, what good is it?!

DURec

Redleg

(6,748 posts)
4. A good number of the more recent winners addressed the limitations of rationality
Fri Nov 14, 2025, 01:23 PM
Friday

in decision-making. This is important work they have done and it helps us better understand why people make such stupid-ass decisions.

leftstreet

(38,349 posts)
6. Not sure it's valuable in the framework of Capitalism
Fri Nov 14, 2025, 01:31 PM
Friday

There are limited actions "decisions" available for people who don't control a resource

Redleg

(6,748 posts)
8. I don't understand your point
Sun Nov 16, 2025, 10:27 AM
Sunday

The models of decision-making are applicable to any types of decisions at any level.

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