essentially a right wing talking point. And, yes, offensive.

I looked back at the history of the groups and it wasn't partisan.

What surprised me was how the vast majority, who were indeed suffering, were willing to continue suffering until something was done to prevent things from getting even worse, as you said.

I looked to them as a guidepost of sorts regarding the shutdown topic.

I live in Texas and there are government workers who live all around me. I know three personally - one better than the other two.

But all three felt that if it was started, they felt it should not be ended before the demands were met. Again, I'm not trying to start a fight with those who might disagree. This was just three people's assessment, but I'm guessing it was pretty much the common feeling.

Hope its out of everyone's system no matter what side of the shut down issue. Now lets get behind Democrats as they push to go after Trump over the Epstein Files. A wonderful gift we've been handed! And Epstein did say he's a very bad man and Mad!

to blame. It was a bad deal with no enforcement provisions.

Justice Jackson had our backs, she was working on restoring SNAP.

to go hungry. But there are some on the extreme left who really don't care of someone suffers or not. I'm not talking about anyone at DU, but have seen many priveleged white people who don't suffer any consequences when republicans pull their BS, yet never criticize them but always are ready to slam democrats for not being perfect, a goal post that shifts almost daily. Think of Susan Sarandon in 16 saying that no one should vote for Hillary Clinton.

And being without healthcare is the worst one… we could have joined together and fed folks/it was in the works. Plus I think that we are being lied to. There is something else going on here. We have excusesand maybe lies but not the truth. I am insulted by some who think even though the GOP reneged on their promised vote and have now threatened abortion rights, defend this deal. Eight Senators and Sen Schumer thought the ACA WAS NO BIG DEAL.

AIt was fucking hard to get it once. I don’t see how we do it again. Millions will die. If my kids lose their jobs, nothing will help them. The ACA WAS FUCKING important. They threw it away. I want to know why.

when republicans are in office. And they always have good healthcare.

Nothing is happening to the ACA. It existed fine for over 10 years before these temporary credits were put in place in 21 and will survive without them.

All rich nor white. The monthly bills will be in the thousands. Who can afford it? Without participants the ACA will fail. Gone forever I fear. We are going back to 2021 numbers- and consider health costs did not come down after Covid. The support was still needed. It kills me to see my beloved Democratic Party involved in killing our only health care plan for the under 65 folks. A plan despised by the GOP and Trump - always hated by them. And our party helped.

I must say that rich and white talk made me a little sick. That remark was both untrue, disturbing and uncalled for I think. Have a nice day.

who voted for Jill Stein in 16 and 24. They are mainly affluent white people who’s privileged protects them. They just want to spread misinformation to demonize democrats.
You should read this for some perspective

much as any of us do. And we need to work together and stop insulting. them we need too and should show more respect also. The treatment of Mondami was a disgrace. He won the primary! Some in our party chose Cuomo…for God sake. He was endorsed by Trump. This needs to stop. These folks are the future…so the times they are a changing. Time to get out of the. Way. We need change.

Stop calling Biden and Harris and those of us who voted for them war criminals who supported genocide. It is reprehensible that these people are still protesting Harris, who is a private citizen with no power.

And Mamdani was treated fine. He got huge support from many more democrats than the candidate for NYC Mayor usually gets:

but I do know that it's best when Dem politicians act in unity.

That eight or so senators pulling away from the group was unacceptable. They, and the rest of the Dem senators, looked foolish.

The one who looked the worst was Schumer, for his lack of leadership.

And often times those threads were in ALL CAPS screaming at us... thank you for saying what many of us feel.

There was a lot of name calling against those who are okay or even conflicted about ending the shutdown. Do we deserve the same grace?

Then I apologize.

Did you ask anyone if they were okay with people going hungry or going without pay? If not, I'm not sure that I understand your assertion.

compromise their original bad position to vote for...

-- SNAP benefits for 42 million Americans, to increase that funding in the Sen. bill that now goes to the House, which had to throw its own failed House bill out, and
-- states getting reimbursed for any federal expenses they paid during the shutdown -- that includes all blue states that paid for SNAP benefits during the shutdown

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=20797051

While screaming LOSERS. The ACA is sacred. we should have found a better way. The whole thing makes me wonder… why. We got nothing and they knew we would get nothing. What kind of reward was received for this? I would like to know.

Because it's generally bad form to impugn motives like that. But there were lots of posts calling the group that ended the shutdown dinos, or accusing people of killing 50,000 a month based on Kaiser paper.

You have never offended me that I'm aware of so no reason to apologize. I'm just trying to say the discourse was rough in both directions. I have no idea how I'd have voted in their situation because I see arguments in both directions and I think both choices had major drawbacks. Both of my senators voted to continue the shutdown and I have no problems with them doing so.

I definitely should have worded my response better. I think Torchlight below expressed a similar viewpoint better than I did.

Happening was this-those who were enraged because the GOP gave us nothing-not even a vote (and they are coming for us in January over abortion laws) secretly. And we thought maybe our leaders should have had our backs and not planned to take away folks healthcare possibly for decades. It was wrong bad policy. Anyone could have seen it wouldn't work.

Well we were attacked in multiple posts and told we didn’t care about suffering. Some even said this was great deal and would help with the midterm. And that is total bullshit. People who came out in 25 could simply give up and it sit it out. We didn’t convince our folks that was devastating.,They know.

You can't see past your own anger to the ways you have to say people who don't agree with you on tactics are taking away the ACA (which predates the extended subsidies) and thus by inference killing people and looking like idiots. You're doing the exact same thing the OP is complaining about just in reverse.

is no reason to continue to say it worked. It didn't.

If a passenger airplane crashed during the shutdown do you think the Democrats would escape blame? Not a chance. I would bet their polling showed that continuation of the shutdown, especially with major flight delays affecting regular folks, would lead to their support dropping. They realized that trump and the GOP’s cruelty knew no bounds.

The ACA saved millions of lives but looking better is a more worthy pursuit? We Will likely lose health care for decades. The ACA was not easy to pass you know. And for what? We got nothing in return. This wasn’t a negotiation it was an ambush.We look like idiots who got played. It doesn’t help us it hurts us in all ways.

the continued support of the Party is critical to getting things changed and the GOP wasn’t budging. They simply do not care. Due to one circumstance or the other if we continued down that road it would lead to ruin. People are still paying attention to healthcare along with their own economic positions. Now the entire ball is in the GOP court and they will be the ones to pay dearly for the actions they take while the Democrats are still seen as the Party to get it right.
I stand with what I said.

Then they blinked.

you and others here persist in presenting yourselves as more moral.
The only explanation is a misguided sense of consistency in unity, attached to another misguided view that the perfect be the enemy of the good.

To persist in the idea that unity alone would have solved the hunger & suffering of 42 million is proof that the claimers wanted Dems to hold out longer on the original bill that would have completely denied 42 million their SNAP food money. And let Americans continue to suffer.

No minority party ever got what it wanted in a shutdown. So for all the critical lip service they still get here, here are both the moral and smart things the five DID to end suffering and hunger:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=20797051

Dems can't have it both ways.
They can either be more morally clear and agree with the five to get food to the suffering, or they can be less morally clear for the sake of party unity (as if unity is some higher moral level) and criticize the five for actually legislating increased SNAP food help.

You're either for how Dems ended the shutdown -- getting 271 repubs to cave -- or you're not.
But no one here can do both.

Five Democrats changed their position. They insisted on changes they would vote for.
271 Republicans changed their position to arrive at a compromised position WITH THE DEMS.
And it's reported by corporate media as "just the Democrats caving." Which you know better than to continue to believe.

Now, if we want to use the word cave in place of the word compromise,
271 Republicans, including Donald Trump, caved to just five Democrats, not eight, just five -- why? because three Democrats were already voting with the Republicans.

Again. The on-track Dems made the 271 blink. And how they got there was by forcing an imperfect bipartisan unity.

Don't argue with them. You weren't them. Support Democrats without insisting you know the moral high ground better. We're getting national credit for this and republicans are not, so take it with some grace.

I don't read half of your posts because they are so long winded. I made a point in my OP that I felt the "fact filled" posts belonged on a different thread.

The subject of THIS thread is my offense at the suggestion that ANY of us were good with other people suffering. We are not. We are different than Republicans

What I honestly think that you fail to grasp is that, yes, Republicans are quite ready to have the country go up in flames. I don't know where you live, but here in Texas, we've seen this happening for several years. They wouldn't have caved without something forcing them to cave. I know that. You know that. So, why didn't the eight Dems know that?

Why did the Democrats ever start the shutdown if they were just going to cave later? THAT is the frustration for me, at least. And I am not looking for an answer from you. My opinion is set.

I am not looking to argue with you. Your posts are much appreciated by many people on DU. I (myself) just don't have the time and inclination to spend the amount of time it takes to digest what you write all the time. I hope you're not offended, but if you are, then I still prefer to be honest.

Be as frank as you want, it's a free country. Speak your mind, I'll speak mine. If you don't wanna "digest" it, take it on face value, and walk away, no harm, no foul, since there's no offense intended.

Of course we're different from Republicans, and this strategic means of ending the shutdown showed that. Why would you belabor the obvious? Dems already know that the entire Democratic Party is never good with other people's suffering and Republicans couldn't care less. If that position somehow leads to blaming the five who changed positions in order to alleviate suffering, then compromising total unity was worth it. Seriously, which is more important..

I live (in exile) in Florida, whose governor is tight with your state's governor, so we live in somewhat flammable political environments. Yep, I agree they'd let the country go up in flames.
Example: Here, Florida lit the match and cheated first in 2000 and SCOTUS allowed it. FL's been a vote count cheating state ever since.

So while our states' parties might demand Democratic unity, our state standard shouldn't be the standard for the rest of states, because senators live in very different states with very different kinds and scales of suffering. We should take that into account.

And then to say Dems started this shutdown makes no sense from the get-go, when Repubs are the majority party who literally wrote in the hunger games for Americans that almost all Democrats refused to vote for.
What the five Dems' compromise vote did was strategic, because they won much for Americans in spite of Dems being in minority status. The five even took the hit so party unity would still exist "in principle" by their principled compromise stance that forced the maga trumpcult party to give up on their evil hunger games.

Ya know, I'll be frank, too. Too much of what passes for discussion in GD is a kind of mutual validation of OP positions, some thought/feeling one-liner that doesn't enlighten fellow Democrats as much as just make them feel collectively right; in other words, high feels, no information. That right there I don't take seriously, unless it's an attack on Dems or their allies.

This country's in a terrible place, and imo, Dems need to stop indulging in finger pointing/circular firing squad ego impulses, like
-- scapegoating some one person for the party's loss; or
-- rethugs cheated even though we can't get the evidence; or
-- habitually letting a first wave of corporate headlines cause knee-jerk distrust of our party leaders.
That and a bus token gets them across town. It does the party no good, only the poster's ego.

Argue? Having opposing positions isn't about arguing. Constructive arguing isn't about fault finding or feelings, but pointing out logic error and/or finding mutual ground for solving real problems, not personal ones, or off-the-top feelings problems, or corporate defined problems.
No worries. I'm not offended. We're good, hamsterjill. (love your cute name, since my kids had hamsters)

Okay, my longwinded response is over. Have a good rest of your day.

And believe me losing healthcare for decades will cause more suffering yes death in any case.

because they can't be attached to his name any longer. Yes, the attempt at ending healthcare is coming, but it's not a done deal. Food access is equally important, because food is medicine.

I trust congressional Democrats to keep the election momentum going in their houses, and stop the upcoming defunding of Soc Sec and Medicare.

At this point the shutdown wasn’t helping people get health insurance, it was just hurting federal employees while Trump was doing everything he could to starve families.

Those are real consequences of a continued shutdown, you can’t just waive or pretend them away.

It's about making sure things don't get worse than when we started.

We needed people to finally stand up and tell the Republican Party "enough" but yet again Democrats saved Republicans from themselves and took the pressure off them to do the right thing. Their votes in the moments after the shutdown ended reflect that.

There is now zero incentive to do anything other than what they have been doing which is funneling money to their billionaire masters and shitting on the American people.

While some may feel different, they will continue to do everything in their power to protect the Mango Mussolini and his billionaire buddies from the Epstein files. Because it's a cult.

It doesn't matter now. It's done. We just have to move on and hope for the best.

But I also acknowledged (to myself) that I don't know the insider's scope as to what the GOP was prepared to do. They are not normal; it's a whole different game than we've ever seen in American politics. I've never seen a party do so much damage to the entire country and give zero f*cks. I honestly think the GOP was prepared to let the entire country go down in flames.

So maybe the Democrats realized they weren't going to win this, not this round. I'm not making excuses and I'm not "cheerleading", but I'm also not personally worried about putting food on the table, so I can't speak for whether or not someone else who is could have lasted much longer.

Since that horse has left the barn, what to do now? One thing is to get the old guard Dems who aren't willing to fight out of office and put in some Dems who will fight.

There has been a constant chorus here - for years! - insisting at each debacle that "This is just the way it should have gone because reasons." NONE of this is the way it should have gone. November SNAP was going out, and we were on the verge of restoring it permanently.

And if we give in again in December, which we probably will, that will make things that much worse. I don't even want to think about what we will lose then.

37 Democrats DID NOT surrender. Yes, it's likely some of them were in on this scheme. And more than likely that Schumer engineered it. But I will go to my grave thinking that the majority of them are with us.

We need to face reality. This surrender was absurd.

We have the people. We need to change the leadership.

You and I are always (generally) on the same page. Great post.

A pet peeve of mine...

The results always seemed to boil down to the absurd reductionism of "that means you want children to go hungry!" or its flip side, "that means you want to deny millions healthcare!" The annoyance of running into these Orthodox Hipster assertions every fourth or fifth reponse framings just became too many bugs on my window.

I was still opposed to the agreement. My thinking was this was bo ordinary shutdown and Trump’s cruelty got rewarded.

Much appreciated.

I think it's extremely unlikely that Democrats want people to be without healthcare, and those of us who support our elected representatives and who understand how politics work are also "very offended when that is suggested". The outrage-door swings both ways. Both sides are presenting their case as a false dichotomy... both incorporate elements of the "straw man fallacy" and "appeal to emotion".

Both versions are a distorted and easily attackable version of the actual arguments and the reality of the situations and dilemmas that we (and our elected reps) face.

Last edited Thu Nov 13, 2025, 05:37 PM - Edit history (1)

In reality vote was to end the ACA They deemed it less important than ‘something’ Healthcare is likely gone for good. I have no idea what the ‘something’ was but I am sure our dear media will release it shortly just before the midterm. Dems in disarray don’t you know.

I've seen posts indicating that the ACA issue will not be resolved because Republicans won't keep their word. And that's pretty much a given. There is disappointment that certain Dems didn't seem to understand that.

So, if you're offended by the disappointment, I'm sorry. If you've actually seen those types of posts, then it could be that I simply have not.

Welcome to DU.

But the fact is that is what is being blamed on the people who are fighting against that happening, as well as against people losing their pay, their jobs, their means of getting food.

We all have to take a wider view of things and not lose faith.

There are a lot of Democrats who have already lost faith. What our elected representatives have to do is to restore that faith.

These Democrats did get three things: (i) funding of the food assistance program known as SNAP for the rest of the fiscal year through September 2026, (ii) the Trump administration agreed to reinstate federal workers who were laid off during the shutdown through reductions in force, or RIFs and (iii) a “minibus” of three appropriations bills, which will fund some parts of the government through next fall including the FAA. There is likely to be another shutdown after this deal expires on Jan. 30, 2026 and so these concessions are meaningful to some groups..

What Democrats say they won in the 43-day government shutdown www.nbcnews.com/politics/con... /jmho we , dems, didn’t win 😐we would have won IF we didn’t fold /cave give up 🤷🏽‍♀️ but here we are 🙇🏽‍♀️ is it too much to ask that we stop being cowards & get some f’ing steel in our spine FFS 🤦🏽‍♀️

— Nikki (@varivergirl.bsky.social) 2025-11-12T11:34:26.853Z

Trump and the Republicans reneged on their word about the government workers too. The GOP reneged on the federal worker thing...they had to be forced by the wording Schumer ET Al didn't do it. And none of what you say is more important than the ACA. Sorry our side was played. I want to know why? Surely Schumer knew the Republicans would break their word... there is something else going on here. Schumer now has a primary opponent...GOOD.

Put them on Ignore and go on with your life.

I have a follower!!!

To be clear, this wasn't one post. It was many posts on multiple threads. I hope that makes things clear.

to lie their way out and not keep their word. Now, I feel every damn person in the eight plus Schumer coalition should have know better. We don't have snap even...every person- god knows how many that is) must reapply. Babies are literally starving. I am sick about this and doing what I can to help...been in the hospital. I have to tell you. I am furious at those Democrats that voted with the GOP to allow this to happen. They should have known better. It was tough to get the ACA, I don't know if we can do it again. And people may very well starve if they haven't already before this nightmare is over.

in this thread remains unchanged, in that the idea of Democrats being 'responsible' for people starving and not getting paid' is a decidedly right wing narrative.

Trump himself keeps repeating it. The notion that Democrats shut down the government. Bullshit.

REPUBLICANS control the House, and shutdown the government, rather than even entertain the ACA extension. TRUMP refused to meet with Democrats. And when Democrats offered a compromise measure to get the government open, REPUBLICANS refused to even consider it.

The shutdown ended for the same reason it began. Because Democrats CARE, NOT Republicans.

Republicans never, at anytime, gave a flying FUCK about who didn't get paid, or who starved. Even filed SUIT, in court, to KEEP people starving,

though doubtful many in MAGA-land would be chastising them for THAT.

Nope. They'll leave the recriminations to us. As usual.