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AZJonnie

(2,365 posts)
Thu Nov 13, 2025, 04:40 AM Nov 13

I'm not sure who (Victim) in the email was, but I think the GQP's claim it was Virginia Guiffre is BS!

And here is why:

Here’s the relevant segment from her 2015 testimony, summarized and directly quoted from court records:

She recanted earlier public statements implying Trump was present with girls at Epstein’s.

She stated: “I do not believe [Trump] had any knowledge of Epstein’s misconduct with underage girls.”

She denied seeing Trump act inappropriately or with any of Epstein’s victims.


So far so good for the regime, right? This all makes saying " (Victim) was Virginia Guiffre" sound like a brilliant strategy for them. Like yeah, he spent hours with her there, but it was sunshine and rainbows! And conveniently for them, she cannot be contacted to confirm nor deny this assertion

Here's the problem for these liars, though, from the same deposition:

She confirmed: “I never saw him at any of Epstein’s properties.”

These excerpts are from her court deposition during the 2015 Maxwell defamation trial, and represent her sworn account on the record


She cannot simultaneously have "spent hours at (Epstein's) place with (Trump) ", per the email, yet "never see him at any of Epstein's properties" per her testimony. These are mutually exclusive.

I think House Republicans were quick to blurt out Guiffre's name because they knew she had said exonerating things about Trump under oath. Leadership probably knew of the existence of these emails a long time ago, and had this angle prepared if they did come out.

But I bet they thought we'd all miss the part where she also testified, explicitly, under oath, and even in the very same sitting, that she was NEVER WITH TRUMP at Epstein's place!

Which leads to the question ... WHO IS (VICTIM), in actuality? Perhaps someone who could still be spoken to? Someone who does NOT have such exonerating words to share about him?

This particular enquiring mind wants to know. Why are they LYING about who (Victim) is?
37 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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I'm not sure who (Victim) in the email was, but I think the GQP's claim it was Virginia Guiffre is BS! (Original Post) AZJonnie Nov 13 OP
Let me see if I understand this BeerBarrelPolka Nov 13 #1
Fair question! Here's the magical answering machine to the rescue AZJonnie Nov 13 #2
Well BeerBarrelPolka Nov 13 #3
Anybody but Virginia Guiffre, I would agree AZJonnie Nov 13 #4
We will never know definitively BeerBarrelPolka Nov 13 #8
For some names, the co-author has knowledge TommyT139 Nov 13 #11
This message was self-deleted by its author Volaris Nov 13 #29
Did Trump pay her off? mgardener Nov 13 #13
Because of the so-called sweetheart deal cobbled together for Epstein... Hugin Nov 13 #5
Honestly BeerBarrelPolka Nov 13 #6
Sadly, I tend to agree... Hugin Nov 13 #9
That's true BeerBarrelPolka Nov 13 #10
At least in today's news TommyT139 Nov 13 #7
Could have been Katie Johnson jmbar2 Nov 13 #12
It would really be nice if she were to come out again Callie1979 Nov 13 #15
If she's still living BeerBarrelPolka Nov 13 #16
If not it would seem we'd hear about it. She must've had family. Callie1979 Nov 13 #21
Good points BeerBarrelPolka Nov 13 #22
That case turned out to be extremely sketchy AZJonnie Nov 13 #26
Its my understanding that the redaction was done by the Democrats to shield victims. Callie1979 Nov 13 #14
There Were Innumerable Other Minors. Virginia Was The Known.... ColoringFool Nov 13 #17
Yes, but the subject is this particular email and who (Victim) is in that context AZJonnie Nov 13 #31
I'm Saying That Trump Defenders---Not You---Will Try To Use This..... ColoringFool Nov 14 #36
Sounds serious Torchlight Nov 14 #37
Wasn't Giuffre stationed at Trump's property until Epstein "stole" her? live love laugh Nov 13 #18
That's my recollection. Something about her dad working at MALago in allegorical oracle Nov 13 #20
Trumps full of it, of course, he didn't care about a towel girl going to work for Epstein AZJonnie Nov 13 #30
The GOP released the unredacted document with Giuffre's name Prairie Gates Nov 13 #19
Indeed - as the BBC said: muriel_volestrangler Nov 13 #23
Hmmmm ... okay thanks for the update. I didn't know if the Democrats knew the name before redaction AZJonnie Nov 13 #24
Yes, that's the question others are asking as well Prairie Gates Nov 13 #25
Or she didn't testify about her interaction with trump Lifeafter70 Nov 13 #27
I addressed that question upthread as it was the first question asked of my OP by BeerBarrelPolka AZJonnie Nov 13 #28
I don't think it was about money Lifeafter70 Nov 13 #33
I have an idea ... what if it was ALL the money from that suit, that Maxwell settled before actual court? AZJonnie Nov 13 #34
I was referring to Virgina Giuffre Lifeafter70 Nov 13 #35
Because apparently choie Nov 13 #32

BeerBarrelPolka

(2,164 posts)
1. Let me see if I understand this
Thu Nov 13, 2025, 04:43 AM
Nov 13

"She testified under oath:

She recanted earlier public statements implying Trump was present with girls at Epstein’s."

So she lied at least once. How do we know what the real truth is with her?

AZJonnie

(2,365 posts)
2. Fair question! Here's the magical answering machine to the rescue
Thu Nov 13, 2025, 05:04 AM
Nov 13
Explanation for Earlier Claims:
In her deposition and subsequent interviews, Giuffre clarified that some of her earlier statements were either misquoted, taken out of context, or based on rumors rather than personal experience.

She explained:

She was, at the time, recounting what she’d heard from others in Epstein’s circle, not what she personally witnessed.

“Anything I may have said before was hearsay or based on what was going around those circles—I never saw it myself.”

She stated she wanted her sworn record to represent her true firsthand knowledge, distancing herself from previous media implications.

AZJonnie

(2,365 posts)
4. Anybody but Virginia Guiffre, I would agree
Thu Nov 13, 2025, 05:38 AM
Nov 13

But she was freaking FEARLESS, man. She's the one that went out and held everyone to account!

The ENTIRE "Epstein List"? That's her list, in fact it is all from this very trial (Maxwell, 2015):

The list of people Virginia Giuffre named, under oath in the 2015 Maxwell defamation lawsuit deposition and subsequent legal filings, as those Epstein ordered her to “give massages” (which, by her testimony, was a euphemism for sexual acts) includes:

Bill Richardson – Former Governor of New Mexico and former UN Ambassador
George Mitchell – Former U.S. Senate Majority Leader and Special Envoy to the Middle East
Jean-Luc Brunel – French modeling agent and scout
Alan Dershowitz – Harvard Law professor and attorney (a Trump legal ally at times)
Prince Andrew, Duke of York – British royal
Glenn Dubin – Billionaire hedge fund owner (Highbridge Capital)
Marvin Minsky – MIT computer scientist and AI pioneer

By Description (from Giuffre’s testimony where she could not recall or did not give a name):
Another prince, whose name she did not know (distinct from Prince Andrew)
A “prominent head of state” (not specifically identified)
High-profile businessmen and academics (some named, others described generally in testimony)
Prominent figures in fashion and modeling


So these are powerful people, rich people, and she went and named names, so I don't see a strong reason to suspect that in the one particular case of Donald Trump, she turns tail and runs? About even SEEING him there at his place? I judge this to be unlikely. I think she'd have told whoever tried to "get to her" to go pound sand, but I could be wrong.

In the event I am, then we'd take the whole THING to be false, in which case, (Victim) COULD be Guiffre, however, that means she did NOT exonerate Trump under oath, so the GQP has a different problem because Giuffre provides no cover for them.

I thought this all through before I posted

BeerBarrelPolka

(2,164 posts)
8. We will never know definitively
Thu Nov 13, 2025, 05:56 AM
Nov 13

so it's something I can't argue or even debate over. It's really all conjecture at this point.

Response to BeerBarrelPolka (Reply #8)

Hugin

(37,165 posts)
5. Because of the so-called sweetheart deal cobbled together for Epstein...
Thu Nov 13, 2025, 05:48 AM
Nov 13

Which we've since learned somehow for some reason and very unusually contained a rider allegedly barring the investigation/prosecution of other parties/accomplices. It's probably safe to assume that the testimony was massaged to support the charge Epstein acted alone. So, your caution in the interpretation of anything public drawn from that is a good idea.

BeerBarrelPolka

(2,164 posts)
6. Honestly
Thu Nov 13, 2025, 05:52 AM
Nov 13

I know she was a victim, but if I was on the jury, I would not consider her testimony credible.

Hugin

(37,165 posts)
9. Sadly, I tend to agree...
Thu Nov 13, 2025, 06:01 AM
Nov 13

But, it's not like there aren't plenty of other victims who have yet to have their testimony heard out there.

BeerBarrelPolka

(2,164 posts)
10. That's true
Thu Nov 13, 2025, 06:03 AM
Nov 13

Just yesterday, emails were released that state Trump was at Epstein's house. We need more testimony to get a clear picture.

TommyT139

(2,097 posts)
7. At least in today's news
Thu Nov 13, 2025, 05:54 AM
Nov 13

...I have heard discussed a few different emails, clearly different victims. In one of them, Giuffre's name was mentioned by people on MSNBC who are very careful about only alluding to names when they are in public material (and/or the victim has discussed them in public or books).

There was another person, in an email and also the anecdote about the "joke" check.

Often in these sorts of things, there is a naming convention: "Person 1," "Person 2" and so on. But that is not happening with these releases.

jmbar2

(7,465 posts)
12. Could have been Katie Johnson
Thu Nov 13, 2025, 06:29 AM
Nov 13
Katie Johnson, the Jane Doe who accused President Trump of raping her at Jeffrey Epstein’s Upper East Side townhouse in 1994, when she was just 13 years old. She later dropped the lawsuit on November 4, 2016, just days before the election. Her lawyer said she had received threats.


https://www.tarapalmeri.com/p/the-disappearing-epstein-jane-doe

She has since disappeared.

Callie1979

(1,044 posts)
21. If not it would seem we'd hear about it. She must've had family.
Thu Nov 13, 2025, 08:23 AM
Nov 13

That whole thing was up & down so quickly it was odd. but she did have that high powered well know lawyer; someone should ask HER about all this. Lisa Bloom was one, another guy just recently spoke out & said he 100% believed her. His name is Thomas Meagher I think.

AZJonnie

(2,365 posts)
26. That case turned out to be extremely sketchy
Thu Nov 13, 2025, 01:23 PM
Nov 13
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2016/11/3/13501364/trump-rape-13-year-old-lawsuit-katie-johnson-allegation

Here's AI overview if you don't care/have time to read it all (although I always click through to the real article when I use AI like this, so the content creators make a little ad money ).

Vox published coverage on the "Katie Johnson" case against Trump that highlights its oddities and how it stood apart from other allegations:

The plaintiff "Katie Johnson" ( also used "Jane Doe" ) was anonymous and never appeared publicly, even at a scheduled press conference, citing fear from death threats.

The case featured two anonymous witnesses whom the press couldn’t interview, and was promoted by two highly dubious characters—an ex-reality TV producer known as "Al Taylor" and a conservative activist, Steve Baer—with an obvious anti-Trump agenda. They shopped the story to various outlets aggressively but few covered it due to credibility concerns.

Journalists couldn’t verify Johnson’s identity or the details of her claims. The only journalist who said they interviewed her left largely confused and doubting her existence.

Documents listed a foreclosed, abandoned address and disconnected phone number for Johnson, creating more suspicion.

The allegations themselves—violent rape at age 13 involving Trump and Epstein—were described as “almost cinematic in their depravity.” Some initial claims were omitted from later filings, like Trump supposedly giving money for an abortion and using anti-Semitic slurs against Epstein.

Vox points out the case was promoted in bizarre ways, including attempts to sell videotaped testimony for $1 million.

Elements like volatile promoters, inconsistent communications, and questions raised even by journalists and investigators made it one of the most suspicious and contested cases among the Trump allegations.

Summary: The Vox article highlights why Katie Johnson's case was both uniquely disturbing and deeply suspicious, with many details unverifiable and promoted via questionable actors, making it an outlier among the Trump-related lawsuits

Callie1979

(1,044 posts)
14. Its my understanding that the redaction was done by the Democrats to shield victims.
Thu Nov 13, 2025, 07:07 AM
Nov 13

Even though she's no longer with us
Thats what CNN said.
But its also not unheard of that she was pressured. It could have contributed to her suicide.

ColoringFool

(109 posts)
17. There Were Innumerable Other Minors. Virginia Was The Known....
Thu Nov 13, 2025, 07:23 AM
Nov 13

Victim of the Andrew Formerly Known As Prince.

What are the odds, really, of Andrew and Trump's being at the same Epstein property at the same time? Thus, what are the odds of VIRGINIA and Trump.....? Likely exactly as she testified.

But for one girl out of thousands to not have seen Trump is in no known Universe any kind of blanket exoneration of him.

Only a fool would believe so, and only someone who thought others fools would declare so.

No. There are, or were when they were alive, other victims of the then-bon vivant Bestie of Jeffrey.



AZJonnie

(2,365 posts)
31. Yes, but the subject is this particular email and who (Victim) is in that context
Thu Nov 13, 2025, 02:08 PM
Nov 13

(Victim) being Virginia Guiffre in this context is the best possible 'answer' for Trump, because, under oath in 2015, she says she never saw Trump do anything wrong. She is like the ONE PERSON who has basically exonerated him from doing anything wrong (in relation to herself).

However, as I said in the OP, in that SAME testimony, she explicitly said she never saw Trump at an Epstein property. Whereas if she is (Victim), then Epstein's email is clearly saying Virginia was, in fact, with Trump for hours at his house. They can't both be true. That is the one and only point to what I'm saying, nothing to do with any 'blanket exoneration' for Trump. Of course she's only 1 person out of innumerable possible others

ColoringFool

(109 posts)
36. I'm Saying That Trump Defenders---Not You---Will Try To Use This.....
Fri Nov 14, 2025, 08:18 AM
Nov 14

As some kind of "See?! TRUMP IS INNOCENT!" deal.

allegorical oracle

(6,020 posts)
20. That's my recollection. Something about her dad working at MALago in
Thu Nov 13, 2025, 08:02 AM
Nov 13

maintenance, or something. Then he got his daughter, Virginia, a job there and she was a "spa" employee. At some time she was approached and offered an opportunity to become a masseuse, which she accepted. Thought she was the named employee who was "stolen" from djt -- and he has said that's when he got pissed at Epstein.

AZJonnie

(2,365 posts)
30. Trumps full of it, of course, he didn't care about a towel girl going to work for Epstein
Thu Nov 13, 2025, 01:59 PM
Nov 13

I actually think it wasn't Trump himself who made that claim, but whoever did, IIRC they quickly backed away from it, realizing that it pretty much implicated Trump as having known what Epstein was up to, and didn't report it.

The falling out was because Trump snaked a Florida property that Epstein wanted at auction in 2002, a listing Epstein had asked his buddy Trump to look at with him, and give him his opinion on it shortly before. Which is the very same property Trump sold to a Russian oligarch 6 years later in 2008 (at the nadir of the housing market!) for more than DOUBLE what he'd bought it for in 2002 (when property values were relatively high, though not as high as the heights around 2005-the bust).

In fact, Epstein told Michael Wolff in a 2015 interview that he believed at the time (and still) that Trump got the cash to buy it at auction from the Russians, because Trump was WAY underwater at the time, business failing right and left. IOW, Epstein knew Trump was laundering oligarch money. Donald Jr. back that idea up in 2008 in fact when he admitted at some conservative seminar (iirc) that a lot of the money they had coming in was from Russia.

Prairie Gates

(6,885 posts)
19. The GOP released the unredacted document with Giuffre's name
Thu Nov 13, 2025, 07:45 AM
Nov 13

Moreover, the email with the redacted name was released by Democrats, who have not disputed the WH claim that the redacted name is Giuffre's.

muriel_volestrangler

(105,254 posts)
23. Indeed - as the BBC said:
Thu Nov 13, 2025, 09:05 AM
Nov 13
Since that statement, BBC Verify has been combing through the documents released by the Republican-controlled House Oversight Committee. It has found the same email - in a file named HOUSE_OVERSIGHT_031326.txt.

However, unlike the fully redacted one put out by the US House Democrats, a name does appear:

"i want you to realize that that dog that hasn't barked is trump.. virignia spent hours at my house with him ,,"

Asked why the name was originally redacted, Representative Robert Garcia - the leading Democrat on the US House Oversight Committee - said the party will never release names of victims in line with the wishes of the families.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/c2dr3z9egljt?post=asset%3A24f42665-d062-4ea3-af9c-8bff2adf1dc0#post

AZJonnie

(2,365 posts)
24. Hmmmm ... okay thanks for the update. I didn't know if the Democrats knew the name before redaction
Thu Nov 13, 2025, 01:03 PM
Nov 13

So the fact they didn't dispute the GOP claim didn't seem important. Well then this revelation brings question to her entire exculpatory testimony regarding Trump to my mind, because as I mentioned she said all these nice things but those included never having seen him at an Epstein property. Now that we know she DID spend hours with him, what else about the way she covered for him was false, I wonder? And was she paid off to make that testimony does make sense as a question to ask I have to sadly admit

Prairie Gates

(6,885 posts)
25. Yes, that's the question others are asking as well
Thu Nov 13, 2025, 01:06 PM
Nov 13

There are a number of explanations: he might have spent hours in the house, and knew she was there, but she didn't know he was there. There's nothing that says they spent the hours together, although I guess "spent hours with him" is probably pretty clear on that point.

Lifeafter70

(736 posts)
27. Or she didn't testify about her interaction with trump
Thu Nov 13, 2025, 01:27 PM
Nov 13

To protect her family. Her father worked for trump. Trump could have threatened her family.

AZJonnie

(2,365 posts)
28. I addressed that question upthread as it was the first question asked of my OP by BeerBarrelPolka
Thu Nov 13, 2025, 01:36 PM
Nov 13

Synopsis: I don't think she could be bullied, myself. She was very brave, she's the one who named names all along. Now, could she be bought? Not sure on that one but it's disturbing to consider, because SO much about what we all believe about the case as a whole relies on her, specifically, being a honest accountant of the facts. If she was just a money-grubber like that, it really screws up the entire storyline regarding any sort of "ring".

It wouldn't mean Epstein/Maxwell aren't still completely guilty as there are plenty of witnesses on that account, but Guiffre was unique in coming out and saying she was "trafficked to Epstein's rich friends". She *IS* the source of the suspicion in that particular regard.

Also the testimony was 2015 whereas her dad worked for Trump when she was hired at Mar A Lago in 2001. He could have been long gone.

Lifeafter70

(736 posts)
33. I don't think it was about money
Thu Nov 13, 2025, 02:43 PM
Nov 13

Or that she could be bought. I don't get that vibe from her. I do get the vibe that she loved her family and they loved her.
Her mental health was fragile and trump and his minions would have exploited fhat and her love for her family
I think she worried about their safety and wanted to protect them.

Edited to add: in her book she accused her father of abuse and taking hush money from epstein. So I'm not sure why she would not name trump if they had any negative interactions

AZJonnie

(2,365 posts)
34. I have an idea ... what if it was ALL the money from that suit, that Maxwell settled before actual court?
Thu Nov 13, 2025, 03:58 PM
Nov 13

Which has been estimated, but not disclosed, to be in the low-single-digit millions?

IOW, what if Trump lawyers contacted Maxwell lawyers and said "if she will go on record and exonerate Trump completely from wrongdoing, we know Maxwell well, tell her and her lawyers we will make sure she settles with you, before court, for $5M".

I'd add that, in fact, maybe their "hours long" time they were both (per Epstein) at Epstein's house was nothing sexual, maybe an actual massage, or maybe they didn't interact at all? This is why she'd be like "okay, whatever", if that gets me $5M and Maxwell settles, which looks bad for Maxwell?

At that point, 2015, Trump was running, or was about to. She had publicly said in the past that she'd seen Trump with young girls and Epstein, so she's already "a threat" to his candidacy. Then, out of the freaking blue, Maxwells lawyers ask her all these questions about Trump specifically, in a trial that is about Maxwell, not Trump, and she answers EXACTLY how Trump would want her to.

Then, even afterward, in interviews, she re-iterates the idea that she had nothing on Trump, things she said before were taken out of context, or she was reporting what other's told her, not what she saw, etc. Like she went OUT of her way to exonerate Trump. Including, apparently, even lying that she'd ever seen him at Epstein's place (assuming we can trust Epstein's recollection regarding something that happened 9 years earlier).

And then PERHAPS? That $5M? What if that actually came from Trump?

Lifeafter70

(736 posts)
35. I was referring to Virgina Giuffre
Thu Nov 13, 2025, 05:09 PM
Nov 13

Maxwell is all about her and a get put jail free card.

On edit: I looked up virginia and maxwell lawsuit and you might be on to something.
There might be some non-disclosure attached to the settlement since they didn't disclose the amount virginia settled for.
But we will never know

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