General Discussion

pat_k

(12,532 posts) Wed Nov 12, 2025, 05:03 PM Nov 12

"They pissed in the punch bowl while we were still at the party" -Unnamed Senate Dem

In her discussion with Simon Rosenberg yesterday, Katie Phang reported hearing that from a Senate Democrat in re the 5 defectors.

Clearly, the shutdown "deal" has made our jobs harder than if they had held out until Thune jettisoned the filibuster.

However, we are far from "done for." As Simon points out, however things had played out, there is no version of what we face going forward where we won't have to do the hardest things we have ever done -- and that includes holding the criminals accountable when we win back power. (paraphrased)

In her Politics Chat yesterday, Heather Cox Richardson discussed a number of things that are coming together ("balls that are in play" -- it's worth hearing her go through them). While it is unclear how these balls will bounce around, we have more going for us than many seem to realize. (A point that Simon makes too.)

Heather Cox Richardson Nov 11
https://www.youtube.com/live/ICXBZ1X1UhU

And Simon's discussion with Katie Phang:

13 replies

= new reply since forum marked as read

Highlight:

"They pissed in the punch bowl while we were still at the party" -Unnamed Senate Dem (Original Post) pat_k Nov 12 OP

I blame Schumer. dem4decades Nov 12 #1

thanks , pat rampartd Nov 12 #2

Areilla Elm's daily "Dems doing the work day xxx" posts, Heather Cox Richardson's... pat_k Nov 12 #3

Thank you. yellow dahlia Nov 13 #5

Thanks for shares. yellow dahlia Nov 13 #4

And thanks for the kick! pat_k Nov 13 #6

DURec leftstreet Nov 13 #7

8 defectors, not 5 Celerity Nov 13 #8

3 were never on board so they couldn't really defect. pat_k Nov 13 #10

The first 3 were just early defectors from the rest of our party, but defectors nonetheless Celerity Nov 14 #11

True. But somehow this "Sunday night massacre" of principle sure felt like it was orchestrated by Jeanne Shaheen... pat_k Nov 14 #13

And Jonathan Karl said last night on Colbert newdeal2 Nov 13 #9

Standing strong on principle is hard as hell. pat_k Nov 14 #12

dem4decades

(13,426 posts)

1. I blame Schumer.

Reply to pat_k (Original post)

Wed Nov 12, 2025, 05:24 PM

Nov 12

rampartd

(3,138 posts)

2. thanks , pat

Reply to pat_k (Original post)

Wed Nov 12, 2025, 07:08 PM

Nov 12

these guys are talking about the right things. plenty that we still don't understand.

kids this bright , with values seemingly decent, are talking about these things is, well, rather inspirational .

who does our project management? is anyone working game theory? jus thinkin out loud.......

pat_k

(12,532 posts)

3. Areilla Elm's daily "Dems doing the work day xxx" posts, Heather Cox Richardson's...

Reply to rampartd (Reply #2)

Wed Nov 12, 2025, 08:40 PM

Nov 12

... "Letters from an American" and YouTube briefings, and Simon Rosenberg's Hopium Chronicles and YouTube channel are my go to's for keeping my own hope alive as we are flooded with news of horrors that would otherwise leave me cynical and immobilized.

We all need inspiration from wherever we can find it! As Tad Stoermer has pointed out, hope is the life's blood of resistance as much as lies are the life's blood of authoritarians.

Ariella Elm"s
https://www.thedailyelm.com/

Hopium Chronicles
https://www.hopiumchronicles.com/

Simon Rosenberg's YouTube channel:
https://www.youtube.com/@SimonWDC

Heather Cox Richardson's Letters from an American:
https://heathercoxrichardson.substack.com/

Heather Cox Richardson's YouTube channel
https://www.youtube.com/@heathercoxrichardson

yellow dahlia

(4,051 posts)

5. Thank you.

Reply to pat_k (Reply #3)

Thu Nov 13, 2025, 07:41 PM

Nov 13

yellow dahlia

(4,051 posts)

4. Thanks for shares.

Reply to pat_k (Original post)

Thu Nov 13, 2025, 07:39 PM

Nov 13

pat_k

(12,532 posts)

6. And thanks for the kick!

Reply to yellow dahlia (Reply #4)

Thu Nov 13, 2025, 09:43 PM

Nov 13

leftstreet

(38,461 posts)

7. DURec

Reply to pat_k (Original post)

Thu Nov 13, 2025, 09:46 PM

Nov 13

holding the criminals accountable when we win back power

I won't hold my breath

Great link though, thanks

Celerity

(53,157 posts)

8. 8 defectors, not 5

Reply to pat_k (Original post)

Thu Nov 13, 2025, 09:50 PM

Nov 13

8 cavers were:

Fetterman PA
Hassan NH
Shaheen NH (retiring)
Cortez Masto NV
Rosen NV
King (I) ME
Durbin IL (retiring)
Kaine VA

None are up for re-election in 2026.

Plus 6 conservadems in the House also defected:

Jared Golden (D-Maine)
Adam Gray (D-Calif.)
Don Davis (D-N.C.)
Marie Gluesenkamp Perez (D-Wash.)
Tom Suozzi (D-N.Y.)
Henry Cuellar (D-Texas.)

Those 6 voted Yes, in support of the cave-in bill.

Josh Gottheimer was the only one of my 6 least favourite House Dems to vote No, but Blue Dog Whip Adam Gray took his spot and voted Yes.

pat_k

(12,532 posts)

10. 3 were never on board so they couldn't really defect.

Reply to Celerity (Reply #8)

Thu Nov 13, 2025, 11:53 PM

Nov 13

Fetterman PA
Cortez Masto NV
King (I) ME

Angus went back and forth, but he was never a strong no. I view the others as defectors because they all had made statements solidly in support -- until they didn't.

Celerity

(53,157 posts)

11. The first 3 were just early defectors from the rest of our party, but defectors nonetheless

Reply to pat_k (Reply #10)

Fri Nov 14, 2025, 01:13 AM

Nov 14

pat_k

(12,532 posts)

13. True. But somehow this "Sunday night massacre" of principle sure felt like it was orchestrated by Jeanne Shaheen...

Reply to Celerity (Reply #11)

Fri Nov 14, 2025, 01:36 AM

Nov 14

... and the four who shared her delusion that their Trumpublican counterparts were capable of negotiating anything in good faith when they have proven that they are happy to stand by while the malignant narcissist-in-chief abuses power, disbands and corrupts agencies all will, illegally impounds fund, and on and on.

Yes, the early defectors were defectors. But it was not them that tipped the balance on the vote. For me, that was the five.

newdeal2

(4,521 posts)

9. And Jonathan Karl said last night on Colbert

Reply to pat_k (Original post)

Thu Nov 13, 2025, 09:56 PM

Nov 13

That some of the Dem senators who voted no said they were secretly relieved the shutdown was over.

Unless they go on the record I’m convinced these stories are just to boost ratings.

pat_k

(12,532 posts)

12. Standing strong on principle is hard as hell.

Reply to newdeal2 (Reply #9)

Fri Nov 14, 2025, 01:26 AM

Nov 14

It wouldn't surprise me a bit if there were some who felt relieved not to have to follow through on the extremely difficult act of conscious they had dedicated themselves to.

To stand strong as a moral imperative against all sorts of counter-forces is not for the faint of heart.

We had faith that they would use their leverage in an all out effort to spare Americans from the catastrophic premium increases.

If the Republicans refused to extend the subsidies, then we had faith they would make it clear that they would NOT BE Accomplices in paying the way to the cuts the Trumpublicans are hellbent on making. That if the Republicans wouldn't budge on the subsidies, it was was time for them to jettison the filibuster and end the shutdown, all on their own, without Democratic capitulation or support in the coming harms.

I might be pissed as hell that someone took the decision to follow through from me, but I wouldn't be human if I didn't feel a little relieved to be freed of the tough days that were ahead.

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