It took decades to get the ACA and we lost the house. This is not a win.

and why voting "yes" makes some sense; why people not in the Senate may not understand.

A LIE!!!

Therefore everything he said was also not true!!!



It was a good recap.

A LIE!!!

Therefore (according to the sentiment of others posting on DU) everything Laurence said was also not true!!!



It was a good recap. Thanks you for posting!

It is not a win.

That is untrue.

possibly that is what he meant---
which of course, NO, is NOT an "increase"---

(but an increase from what the Bastard Admin
wanted to pay during the shutdown...)

It's a big deal because the "clean CR" only extends to January of 2026. So if and when we get in another shutdown fight over another CR on the budget in January, Trump can't starve America's poor to pressure Dems like he did this time.

This video talks about that September guarantee:

The SNAP year runs from October 1-September 30th and there was nothing in the bill that says otherwise. The cuts will go into effect in October 2026.

So let's not rewrite history. Yes, November's SNAP is supposedly "restored" (although the SC extended the stay at trumps request). But there was no increase, nor were cuts in the offing until 2026.

Not the big fucking bill.

Trump paid SNAP recipients during his last shutdown. I don't think those 8 Senate Dems expected that Trump would just shoot the hostages this time. I think these 8 Dems could not bear to watch 42 million poor Americans starving through the holidays and winter. We may be headed into another shutdown in January, but at least SNAP will be funded this time, so Republicans won't have that starvation leverage:

Sounds like Chuck Schumer's speach from last March claiming that caving was a brilliant strategy.

Or is that what we want to hear

is a preexisting condition!

So that will be fun!

Basically huffing their own farts; this is copium at its worst.

I watch MSNBC occasionally, enough to make a general assessment of the other hosts:

Nicole Wallace - pure anti-Trump; almost nothing concerning actual liberal policy.
Ari Melber - good - willing to occasionally buck the party line when he feels it's necessary; wish he'd drop the hipster stuff
The Weekday Trio - Michael Steele, Symone Sanders, and Alicia Menendez - skippable; I actually find the Weekend group - Ayman, Antonia, Elise, and Catherine to be more interesting.
Chris Hayes - same as Ari Melber except for the hipster complaint.
Rachel Maddow - totally ensconced in a liberal bubble
Jen Psaki - good - helped by recent actual experience in Democratic presidential administrations
Stephanie Rule - good - a bit different from the others as her show also covers finance and is not purely partisan.

It’s been over ten years since I’ve seen anything on the network. I was only familiar with Maddow, Hayes, and O’Donnell.

in Liberal youtubes if I can.

replied on the Other LO'D thread.

TY!

In other words, this was all just some cerebral game of 4D chess masterfully played by Rommelesque, genius-level strategists and those who can't see that are simply too dense to grasp the enormity of the collective brilliance before us.

No doubt that Trump & the reThugs are in such awe of the commanding performance senate Democrats displayed during this fight that they're all curled up in the fetal position somewhere in a dark corner sucking their sh*t-tasting thumbs in utter fear at the prospect of any future confrontations.

Trying to figure it all out. I just wonder why we went through a 6 week furlough.

kill her. I believe her. And I'm sure she has a lot of company.

Why have it in the first place? The main positives I see with the shutdown + deal is that it drew attention to both SNAP and the ACA enhancement. Maybe more people understand what they are and why they are improtant now. There is also the guaranty of a vote on extending the expansion of enhancements. These aren’t nothing. It’s worth something to get a public vote on support for ACA enhancement extensions. Will precarious Rs just abstain from voting? I don’t know. There’s little chance the vote will result in expansion, but might be useful in getting back a couple senate seats. Time will tell if it was worth the monetary and psychological pain the shutdown has caused. I, for one, am not well enough informed or perhaps even unbiased enough to know how to best slow down the Trump machine and protect the US people’s needs, but I also do not have hubristic inclinations to think I have a definitive answer as to whether the shut down and deal was an accomplishment to be congratulated. They never seemed to have much leverage, but it seemed that they had more in the last week than before, so the timing seems weird. Lawrence is both an analyst and entertainer. He has had less than a day to pick a position and create a narrative. It had to be spun one way or another. This has got to be a relief for SNAP recipients and federal workers, but also extremely anxiety inducing for those who don’t know how they are going to afford health insurance going forward. Maybe it’s my lack of vision, but I’m not as confident as others are to give my definitive judgment.

Great news, thank you.

Anyone here who remembers SOME of us Dems ragging on the dems, and the "REAGAN DEMOCRATS" shouting us down for criticizing what the Dems were/weren't doing ?????????????

The Republicans, under Reagan, (actually HWBush was running everything along with his CABAL) did the most to destroy the middle and lower class and build the upper class........of any president until WBush, (actually Cheney/Rumsfeld were running everything along with Their CABAL.

Damn right I will bash on the Dems, just as I did after the 2000 election, just as I did after the 2004 election, and just as I did after the 2016 election.
Those elections were all Corrupted, as was the 1980 election, and the dems didn't raise hell about any of them........And they certainly had legitimate reasons to challenge them.......

It’s wrong to say “One to a dozen or so Democrats do something and the whole Democratic Party is implicit, it's a secret plot in cahoots with evil forces”? As you said in another thread. Either the Democratic Party is responsible and both praiseworthy and blameworthy or it’s not and neither. I think criticism and debate within the party when we are as far from election time as possible and when topics are hot as can be is not a bad thing. There’s either actual disagreement amongst our elected representatives or there is a secret plot. I don’t think any cahootsing with evil forces is happening, but these are difficult issues in difficult times and I like to hear multiple points of views and not just the ones from Democratic Party institutionalists.

"The five changed votes on the Democratic side vs the 271 Republicans changing their position is being generally reported as 'the Democrats,' meaning all of them, abandoning their position. ... It's reported as just the Democrats caving."

Maybe, their mock shutdown position, but I think they could have gotten this deal at any time of the shutdown. I’m not saying it’s bad, I’m just not as impressed as Lawrence and the O’Donnellites with the strategic victory. I guess I will have to wait until tomorrow when Trump and his 70 plus million followers take the 271 Republicans to task for abandoning their position. I don’t know what choice the Dems in the Senate had, but I am not following O’Donnell’s in asserting that this was a win. Also, praising the results while shielding the party establishment from blame still seems like buttering both sides of your toast, whether the two of you agree.

This is all nice Little Mary Sunshine apologetics and spin. The one thing they were holding out for was the one thing they gave up and caved in on.

No Lawence O'Donnell or Rachel Maddow or Jen Psaki or Nicole Wallace attempts to spin this will change that. This is a disaster. Get ready for the fallout, people. We will have to face that, not these eight senators.

This was not a win. I’m not sure how anyone can say that with a straight face.

I’d rather some of them just honestly said, “the shutdown is wrecking my donors holiday travel plans, so fuck your healthcare”.

Sometimes we can't see the forest for the trees. Hasn't this past election showed us anything? Screw the political soapbox, real people through no fault of their own were getting hurt here and now. I'm not making excuses for any of the eight, primary them at your leisure, but it's easy to make a stand when you don't have to worry about feeding your kids tomorrow. Look, what's done is done. When the ACA is voted down, and it will be, who do you think people are going to blame? Not the Democrats. I predict that we are going to win everything in 26, so stop all the GD chicken-littling.

I'm still furious about the Dems not holding out for ACA subsidies, but I also don't have to rely on SNAP to feed my family. Losing healthcare is devastating as well, but I don't know how long people affected by no money for food could have held out.

Today's GOP has become such a corrupt party that I honestly don't know if they would EVER have agreed to ACA subsidies, no matter how long it took. They don't care what it looks like or who gets hurt; it is impossible to shame them because they have no sense of shame.

Look at what they did with the bill they just sent to the House, they added a portion that pays the eight senators whose phone records were subpoenaed $500K for EACH PHONE LINE. That is a party that has literally abandoned all sense of responsibility to anyone but themselves. They would have held out forever.

What needs to happen now is that the Democratic Party needs to get its act together and message the sh*t out of the outcome. Make precise comparisons to what the GOP is spending, and on what, and compare that to how many years of ACA subsidies that money would have bought. As far as I know, the Democrats never put a specific number on the cost of extending the ACA subsidies, so people could estimate it to be anywhere from $500 billion to $2 trillion. If they had provided an example of the bailout to Argentina and how that would have funded X amount of years of ACA subsidies, I think that would have had a significant impact.

Also, bring up the $500K being paid to GOP senators just for having their phone records legally subpoenaed every chance they get. Geez, maybe hire Gavin Newsom's press office as consultants.

I was not impressed.

Dems caved. The things that LO pointed out were either minor or already agreed to before the shutdown.

But if you all want to believe that this defeat was really a great victory... ask the people who will lose their health insurance how they feel about it.

I always watch Lawrence O. and respect his government experience and opinions, but he offered no information on how such "guarantees" on SNAP for example are enforced. What happens when they just say, we changed our minds on those? Will Democrats whine and say, but you promised! There's nothing to stop Republicans from reneging on such a deal. Even now, Trump continues to litigate the delivery of these benefits in the Supreme Court. He will continue to tangle up every objection the Democrats have in the courts with bad faith legal moves to delay and obfuscate until the issue is ruled on by the court. But he may still choose to ignore court rulings and who will enforce them?

what I've been saying. There is absolutely no guarantee regarding SNAP. None. The repubs/Trump can say one thing today and another tomorrow. Trump already did that with SNAP. "It would be my honor to release funds for SNAP" or something like that Trump said. What did he do? He ran to court to stop release of the funds. I'm a SNAP recipient and I am totally against the dems caving in. It was a horrible move and I firmly believe time will prove me right.

Last edited Tue Nov 11, 2025, 09:50 AM - Edit history (2)

I don't want to be hearing about it from Lawrence. I want to be hearing about it from Democratic leadership. I want them out front and vocal. Screaming and claiming victory, and explaining very accurately exactly what they did and how they did it.

Because if this is true, then Democrats should be rightfully taking a victory lap, be proud of what they accomplished and be telling their unhappy voters so that those voters fully understand. They should be proud to shove the victory into the faces of the Republican thugs who don't care if someone has food to eat.

I have not yet seen that. Perhaps, I've missed it?????

from a cross-section of Senators not up for re-election.

If there is a grand strategy, we better change it.

Link to tweet

These Democrats did get three things: (i) funding of the food assistance program known as SNAP for the rest of the fiscal year through September 2026, (ii) the Trump administration agreed to reinstate federal workers who were laid off during the shutdown through reductions in force, or RIFs and (iii) a “minibus” of three appropriations bills, which will fund some parts of the government through next fall including the FAA. There is likely to be another shutdown after this deal expires on Jan. 30, 2026 and so these concessions are meaningful to some groups..

What Democrats say they won in the 43-day government shutdown www.nbcnews.com/politics/con... /jmho we , dems, didn’t win 😐we would have won IF we didn’t fold /cave give up 🤷🏽‍♀️ but here we are 🙇🏽‍♀️ is it too much to ask that we stop being cowards & get some f’ing steel in our spine FFS 🤦🏽‍♀️

— Nikki (@varivergirl.bsky.social) 2025-11-12T11:34:26.853Z