succession = the act or process of following in order or sequence.

I'm so angry I didn't even proof my post. Fixed.

It could gave been done by dm.

Ah, you know what I meant.

I think.

You didn't have to throw in the 1/6.
That was way over the top.

where many families have loved ones scattered around the country, this is a terrible idea. Giving up is not an option.

America is well beyond geographical partition.

Now they use Gerrymandering!

It's not giving up, it's facing the reality that we are just different than those we are being lumped in with. I have nothing in common with my own relatives that buy into this fascist bullshit.

What many countries do this?

Czechoslovakia did it recently, since it was two ethnic groups jammed together after WWI.

Yugoslavia did it because it had several different ethnic groups that finally split up after Tito died, but that was far from peaceful.

Can't really think of any others recently.

Germany and America (Bush 1) pushed for the break up. They backed Slobodan Milosevic and the other separatists because Germany wanted the former Yugoslavia as potential markets and not unified as a potential rival.

Yugoslavia, Czechoslovakia, Pakistan, Ireland, the USSR come to mind.

Then there were the 13 colonies leaving the British Empire.

Well, I guess the USSR was peaceful, mostly.

I don't think peaceful is possible anymore here. Note - that is observation, not advocacy, on my part.

The fighting in Ukraine is yet another effect of the break up of the USSR in my opinion, along with the unrest and violence in Chechnya, Georgia, Tajikistan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan, Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, South Ossetia, Azerbaijan...

by peoples with a different language and culture. The analogous situation in the US would be Naabeehó Bináhásdzo, the Navajo Nation, seceding from the US.

Red states, poor and unable to function would fall to dictators and become Putin or XI satellite states. That would bring perpetual war., among other things. Think Ukraine with Russia as a neighbor
Unable to travel freely around the country, more and more ppl could possibly become detainees /prisoners.
Part of our ability to hang on to freedom…yes it’s in peril, is our size.
Stuff would in general become a lot more expensive…a lot!

I appreciate that. I just don’t see it.

I come from a family of political and cultural conservatives, evangelical Christians who are all in on MAGA. With one exception, my aunt who lives near Asheville, N.C.

She moved out to the West Coast in her 20s and made a full life there but moved back to North Carolina not long after adopting a daughter. She wanted the daughter to be near the kid's grandparents. I warned against doing so, that the culture at large would likely warp her daughter, but she also felt obligated to look after those same aging parents.

The only salve was that they were in the Raleigh-Durham area where there were more liberals thanks to the wealth of colleges.

Our precincts are all small and urban, https://votehub.com/2024-map/
I'd also recommend taking a look at the demographics key and the shift from 2020 and 2016 upper right.
Might as well find a hole to hide our heads.

would be controlled by red America. It would be a disaster for blue America.

How about instead be break up into, let's say, 50 separate nation-states that together form a union, or a united states with a single currency and constitution (with a bill of rights). And each state can make it's own laws so long as it doesn't violate the constitution.

Link to tweet

I explained below what I thought would happen if you tried to remove rural inhabitants from blue states. I only stated that about my family to show that for some people the alienation of family wouldn’t be as big a sacrifice as it would be for others.

Is that movement of sane people from red states and crazies from blue states will be chaotic and dangerous. People think it will be like when Czechia and Slovakia split amicably. Nope. It will make the India-Pakistan Partition look like a love fest.

Most of Michigan would see population declines of 60-70 percent

And cities in red states would become ghost towns

Would refuse to relocate and would instead choose to harass population centers and government seats as much as possible.

reality of "Screaming fire in a Theater" Every falsehood that our media squawks out that is total bullshit, the fine
would be 50,000 dollars. (NOT the Network...the owners. Heh.Heh..) We'd have fair people to judge what's-going-on.
Naturally...Fox News would be broke before supper..

At least the hillbillies and Maga/Maggots would hear the truth and not piles of Horsesh......

running for office, accountable for any lies they put out to the public. I don't know a lot about it yet but have read that they have put it forward.

but, as studies have shown, modern media is WAY more concerned about readership/who is watching/Money...and more money.
Good for Canada.

...are in the 5 percent republican and Democrat range..yes or no. Of course, Fox knows that and they push the needle harder.

Who gets the army, navy, nukes? Some would belong to a now-foreign country. And our enemies would pounce.

Blue states regularly pay the bills for red states.

Personally I think something should have been done about that long ago.

I was watching it thinking, this is MAGA, and I truly have NOTHING in common with these people.

I can see no way that the fascists would let us go in peace, and millions of opponents of MAGA would be stranded in red areas. There were more Democratic voters in Texas than there were in every blue state other than New York and California, for example. Do we abandon those people?

Secession movements in Yugoslavia resulted in massive suffering and death and the dislocation of millions.

Ther is no easy way out of this nightmare. We must fight.

Buying blue state property will be totally out of reach. Especially when the reds confiscate all of our assets.

trump and his armies would never allow a new Civil War anyway.

I'm a lifelong Texan, and if the country were to split, I would not want to stay here. But there are extenuating circumstances that would require that I do that. There's no way I would be able to move.

I'm not alone in that either.

Affordability? Leaving most family, and friends behind. Leaving a location etc you actually love for reasons (personal history, amenities in the area, landscape), not related to Magat stuff. Etc etc!

They're the suburbanites and rustics who live just outside your Liberal blue bubble city.

The second you leave a metropolitan region, it gets real MAGA real fast.

But let’s just hypothesize a way to separate in a way that could be done peacefully. Maybe a graduated partition rather than a succession would be better.

Slowly create two separate versions of the US composed of ideologically differentiated states. The military and arms would be divided into 3 with one third going to blue states, another 3rd to red states, and a final third sent to an united armed forces to simply maintain the peace between red and blue until completely separated.

For the first let’s say 20 years (long enough for anyone born in a state to reach adulthood and decide to move out of said state) we will continue with Birthright citizenship and all people born during this period being citizens of both red and blue USA with the right to move between any state they want at will. During this time each region can decide its own economic policy but all civil fights will be preserved as they are currently. Afterwards, each area can decide their citizenship criteria and automatic citizenship to both countries ends. Five or so years after the 20 years of dual citizenship the peace keeping army will be dissolved with all assets divided between red and blue. Both areas can also amend their constitutions however they want and dual citizenship ends at this point.

We would then be two separate countries and hopefully with a peaceful separation.

That said, I still fear the red country would quickly turn into a fascist dictatorship and would attack the Blue in lust for empire following the peace keeping forces dissolution. At that time we would have a second civil war.

Is your issue geography or policy?

matters.
What is more practical is managing infrastructure.
The west coast states are for the most part ideologically aligned. With a high speed rail system they will be linked more structurally in alliance.
The same could be said for the Northeast as far south as D.C. Charlotte and the triangle might want to connect.
The southeast has the SEC which should be enough to align it.
The Midwest has Chicago as its hub and Ohio will have to make a decision, economically.
I suspect these alliances already exist with trucking routes, electric grids, and factors with which I am unaware.
If any of you remember the slime experiments hunting oatmeal in a labyrinth, you can see how transportation links are critical connections.
We rely so often, economically, on the varieties of each region's strengths, fair trade zones will be established similarly to relations in the global marketplace.
Military maintenance will be the most difficult issue, but I sense giving up that national strength would maintain a structured unification.
I don't think we can continue the ideological rift as is.
I live in Florida with many like minded thinkers.
Yet it is a backward managed political juggernaut.
It is filling with republicans/ trumpers while a serious brain drain is moving to other areas.
I imagine this is happening elsewhere.
With economics a major factor on people's ability to live their dreams, migration in America will respond to conditions that satisfy happiness goals.
People most settled will stay put, but demographic changes are already afoot.

legitimacy to any continuing relationships and the Constitution is a good way to start.

The United States federal government will not allow it.

so there is nothing they can do about it.

And Trump, as of now controls them to a larger degree than any other entity.

The problem with this idea is we are completely intermixed.
California will net vote blue (say) but may also have the largest number of red voters in the country.
I don't see how sectionalism works. Right now.

Then, the two regions of North and South were really two different demographic societies. And the two regions were contiguous to themselves, unlike today, when the red/blue divide is more scattered, with a lot of purple states that might just be cured of their trump love by the time this is over.

States making compacts about vaccinations.

the REAL fight is JUST STARTING

It illustrates the risks of trying to take shortcuts to rational thought.

I know this is just a fantasy, and I understand secession would cause catastrophic issues, so it isn't practical, but it helps me to at least fantasize about Canada and Blue States combining into one big country... We could have some of the perks of Canada (universal healthcare), and Canada could inherit some of our perks, including California being the 4th largest economy in the world.

Outside of the fact this isn't practical, wouldn't it be grand?

Nations are ( currently ) built around a concept of "land" ( England, Finland, etc are even names taken from this concept ).

However, currently, in the USA the political divide is not red state v. blue state so much as it is red areas v. blue areas ( specifically cities ).

Rural people tend to be more conservative, urban and suburban tend to be more liberal.

I don't see a way we can easily divide the nation into red v. blue ( and certainly no way to do it non-violently ).

That said, I am all for the Pacific States of America ( Hawaii, California, Oregon, Washington ). Possibly with British Colombia and Baja California.

I know, I am full of contradictions.

Used to happen in Europe all the time.

And they have as much opposition to migration and immigration as we do. So, not really a good example.

Putin swore revenge when the USSR broke apart.
He blamed the US and is intent on balkanizing the US as well.
Smashing our democracy and our union.

All the US states fighting each other and becoming their own countries.

Last edited Tue Sep 23, 2025, 04:15 PM - Edit history (1)

Putin’s goal for 25 years has been due to us what we did, in their opinion, to the USSR

Kill Americans and destroy the US without firing a shot.

Then China and Russia will be the sole global powers.

Russia will still be a weak vassal state to them, basically from now on. Albeit with a bunch of nuclear weapons (of questionable functionality)

Like North Korea.

but Im thinking it is becoming inevitable. This GOP gerrymandering so we are permanently out of power has convinced me.

First of all, it’s not state versus state it’s urban versus rural. Second, all it’s going to result in is wars between a bunch of smaller nationstates instead of one country. But don’t think it’s gonna stop war and don’t think it’s gonna stop the chaos.

Last edited Tue Sep 23, 2025, 04:25 PM - Edit history (1)

I have mixed feelings because although I would like living in a Republic of New England that governed according to principles I agree with, I think this fragmenting of the US would be what Putin would want most of all.

The fact is that even after Trump, the MAGA right and people like them, with governance that will cut taxes on billionaires and cut meaningful services and potentially misuses the government to reward their cronies and attack their enemies is always going to be with us.

Some new enlightened US Republics (New England, NY, West coast, Minnesota, Colorado) that have close ties with Canada and western Europe might be preferable. But, I'm not sure that secession is realistic (tried once and failed big time) and many people in blue areas within red states would lose out. For states with drastic splits like downstate Illinois, would they split the state? What about states that teeter on the edge of blue/red like Wisconsin/Virginia/Georgia/North Carolina/Michigan/Arizona/Nevada?

The idea seems like a pipe dream. I think we're better off fighting to establish a 53/47 lead in the US as a whole and what Trump is doing is really discouraging for the prospect of rooting out corruption and getting money out of politics. If I was younger and had the resources, I'd probably try to move to Scandanavia or somewhere because the US seems long term fucked.

was a real reconstruction after the Civil War. It's too late to fix that now, but I believe it can be fixed. I have no idea how.

And constitution which saws 2/3 have to agree. Republicans since our blue states support them will never willingly let us go. If we tried on our own they would sick military on us and bomb the blue states in all the cities.

You do realize there are many millions of Democrats in "red" states, right? Do you also realize there are many millions of Republicans in "blue" states?

But let's suppose you can work that out - some kind of mass forced migration sending Rs to "red" states and Ds to "blue" states. Here's a question: Since Rs control all levers of Federal Government, what happens to those in the new country who are on Social Security/Medicare?

In truth, it is nonsense to even discuss this.

Sanity. Who gets the money, who gets the resources, who gets the military, and many foods you live may never be allowed to others states.
I served this fucking place and get pretty pissed at people doing the Josh Holly and shitting in our sacrifice.

The Josh Hawley run for your life J6 sprint.

The withholding of federal revenues would be a damn good place to start. The thought of withholding and reallocation of federal taxes to our own needs in California tickles me to no end.

government, those individuals and businesses would still owe what they owe, only now with penalties and interest.

...you won't get anywhere near that today.

Nation's fully integrated between parties, and there's no defining issue like slavery dividing us. It would be an attempted end around the elephant in the legislature and WH that would lose steam behind it's own tyrannical intent.

But there are many of us in red states who are Democrats and/or progressives. Most can’t just pack up and move to a new “blue state” country. As bad as it is now in red states our lives would be exponentially worse if the US divided into separate blue/red countries. We should stick together and fight together.

I live about 45 minutes from downtown San Francisco and most in my neighborhood are very quiet Trumpers. No flags no lifted trucks no red hats. The further away from the Bay it gets much redder very fast. How do we as Californians get rid of these Magats? How about east of the Cascades that is pretty much Magat territory in eastern Oregon and Washington and Very Northern California. The West Coast ain't a blue utopia that I feel some of y'all think. Outiside of the Bay Area and west LA I just don't feel comfortable at all in most of California as a black female. Sounds great but not realistic.

It's going to be an interesting map.

there is really no such thing as Red States and Blue states. That was a term invented by USA Today during the 2000 Presidential election.

There are states where the majority of the voters vote one way or another but it is not necessarily state wide.

The division is mostly along the lines of rural v urban areas. For instance, Tennessee is Red but Memphis is Blue. Illinois would be Red except for the large population of Blue Chicago.

There are some exceptions, like the "Black Belt" that votes Democrat in Red Alabama or the Democrat area along the river in the state of Mississippi. Some of the NE Blue states are very Blue statewide, like Mass.

You see this very clearly with a map of the R v B counties in the US.

Secession would not be as clear as it was in 1860.

United States presidential election.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_states_and_blue_states

I swore an oath to the constitution.

Succession is not mentioned in the constitution.

End of discussion for me

Ok, so we split the country in two and everyone can move to the side they want. What if someone doesn't want to leave? Forced deportation and property seizure? Will you have free elections? Will people be allowed to vote for conservatives? If they are born in your country, but have conservative views, are they stripped of citizenship? Will we just become the thing we don't like?

Maybe everyone will be happy for a short time, but history shows us that factions will develop again. Then what? Another split? Or just a good old fashioned purge? Better hope you aren't in the wrong faction. Or even if you are in the right one, you might not be later.

China had a civil war, the nationalists went to Tawain, and everyone was happy, right? You ended up with two authoritarian regimes, was that a good thing? On the mainland, you soon had factions develop. One faction is in charge for a while, but once Mao died, they put his allies (and even widow) on trial and handed down death sentences. And these people were presumably all on the same side.

We are already in a cold civil war since January 6th 2021. They are already setting up the stage for the country to collapse economically. The economy is the only thing holding this country together. After that what is the point of sticking around with magastan.

than by state borders... and there are a lot of loyal, liberal Democratic folks living in southern cities...
and a lot of magats living in the rural areas of northern states...

Unlike the pre-civil war period, there are no clear lines of demarcation