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moniss

(7,767 posts)
Mon Jul 28, 2025, 05:47 PM Monday

There is good reason to believe the accusations

against Crumb The 1st from the young girls. If you go to the early material from them well prior to his first term you come across statements where they say that he openly went after them and then told them that if they talked he would come after them and their families. What have we seen from him in how he deals with people? He goes after them and their families. Pattern and practice. The description by the girls is consistent with what we have seen. They were saying he had made these threats well before it was demonstrated to the world at large that he does indeed engage in the threats against critics etc. and follows through with actions to go after people and their families.

We also know that we have never seen such an explosion of effort to keep files, video, pictures, investigator notes etc. away from public disclosure. That is not the act of an innocent person. They have even gone to the ludicrous claim that they are protecting the "identity" of victims of Epstein. They know full well they can redact names or blur faces. The excuse is nonsense. The only way this behavior to have this huge effort makes sense is if the material in the files is very, very bad. If this were just a few pictures of Crumb The 1st at cocktail parties in a suit they could just brush it all off.

What you have is plain on it's face and is like the old saying "Who are you going to believe? Me or your lying eyes?" The gaslighting has been in full swing for some time and for a great while, still in many cases, the media shows tried to conflate the demands for the files with an accusation that it was just conspiracy theories. Even MSNBC would have guests come on and deride anybody who smelled a rat and the guest would claim that they had followed this for years and there was no "list" and that it was all a MAGA fever dream.

But as usual you have to pay strict attention to the actual words and how the guests and shows weasel around them. Saying there is no "list" may be true in the sense that Epstein may not have written down a ledger with a title like "List of the people who came to my place and sexually attacked underage girls". Even the reported black book aside it is more likely that Epstein's "keeping track" would have been more subtle and disguised and meaningful only to him. He wasn't putting together records to write a book. So by the show host and guest harping about a "list" they can then deny one exists and conflate the files and "list" as being one and scoff at it as just being a part of the MAGA lunatics conspiracy theories.

Some of the media have changed somewhat now since the Wall Street Journal report of the Birthday Letter etc. But they were all too quick to pooh-pooh this all and now they see the unprecedented move of Blanche to be the "messenger" to Maxwell and her lawyers openly talking about a pardon. So the more they get the "P" word out there before it happens they hope to soften the backlash because people will already be discussing it and framing it. Expect to hear about how she has "suffered enough", was "taken in by Epstein" and was "poorly treated" etc.

So much huge effort all for something that supposedly never happened. It doesn't square.

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marble falls

(67,186 posts)
13. And he's bragged about it widely and often. Everybody in this country of voting age knows exactly what he does: ...
Mon Jul 28, 2025, 09:46 PM
Monday

... he "move(s) in on it like a _____ ." That's him on tape. He's said some things regarding his own daughter, Ivanka, that are troubling.

If you heard your neighbor brag he'd have dated his then under 16 yr old daughter, you'd keep an eye on that guy. And I sure would, too.

calimary

(87,205 posts)
11. The one thing that nailed it for me was the way he "approached" the woman in that encounter.
Mon Jul 28, 2025, 08:49 PM
Monday

I noticed it elsewhere with him, too.

He stans there and greets the woman. But he doesn’t reach out. He takes her hand and pulls it toward himself, while still staying in his own position. So then you have the woman held in place with her mostly-bare arm fully outstretched (maybe so he can feast his eyes on it). He has her at a disadvantage in that position while he can enjoy her bare arm fully outstretched toward him, and she’s just trying to be polite and she doesn’t make a big deal about it.

It’s just a little thing, but the first time I saw it, it made me grit my teeth.

Igel

(37,029 posts)
3. Maybe. But I still like actual evidence.
Mon Jul 28, 2025, 07:08 PM
Monday

As for Katie Johnson (a singular, not a plural, person): https://www.snopes.com/news/2024/09/03/trump-epstein-katie-johnson/ does a good job of debating and counter-debating, as Snopes usually does.

MLWR

(432 posts)
6. There is absolutely NOTHING in his character
Mon Jul 28, 2025, 07:56 PM
Monday

that would make me believe him over the testimony of his many victims. NOTHING. NOTHING AT ALL.

Wiz Imp

(6,307 posts)
7. What testimony of his many victims?
Mon Jul 28, 2025, 08:18 PM
Monday

He's been accused by only 1 person of victimizing them when they were under 18 (pseudonym: Katie Johnson). All other accusations against him have been by women 18 or older. Certainly he has demonstrated that he is capable of heinous acts against underage victims, but he has not been accused of such at this point.

Wiz Imp

(6,307 posts)
8. What are you talking about?
Mon Jul 28, 2025, 08:30 PM
Monday
from the young girls. If you go to the early material from them well prior to his first term you come across statements where they say that he openly went after them and then told them that if they talked he would come after them and their families. What have we seen from him in how he deals with people? He goes after them and their families. Pattern and practice. The description by the girls is consistent with what we have seen.


I'm not aware of Trump being accused of any wrongdoing by girls under 18 besides (1) Katie Johnson & (2) a handful of contestants at a Miss Teen USA pageant who said he came backstage while they were changing but there was no accusation of anything worse than that.

Do you have evidence of him threatening Girls under 18 and their families (except possibly Katie Johnson)?

What there is effectively proof of is that Trump knew what Epstein was doing and did nothing about it. That right there is a heinous act as speaking up immediately upon learning that Epstein was raping young girls, maybe could have save hundreds of girls from being victimized. Trump should absolutely be condemned and blamed for that.

This meme is completely false. https://media-proxy.snopes.com/width/600?url=

moniss

(7,767 posts)
12. One of the Epstein "recruiters" for his NYC parties spoke up
Mon Jul 28, 2025, 09:44 PM
Monday

at the time of the initial Jane Doe filing for a 13 year old and said she witnessed it happen as well as to other young girls. The report also details that the 13 year old withdrew her suit after receiving multiple threats of harm and violence. As well is the quoted testimony from Cohen about being told to use threats to against people. It also notes another attorney that worked to clean up "jams" with females. The report goes into length about the various problems with laws as they are and accepted use of NDA's and other methods to silence and isolate victims so if they do come forward they can be labeled "nutjob", "attention seeker" etc. The report also notes how the victims are so often not given a fraction of the media/legal attention that the rich and powerful are given.

I was surprised last night to catch an MSNBC radio program that actually gave one of the Epstein victims a good length of time to talk about her and her sister and what was done.

https://repository.law.umich.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1274&context=mjgl

Wiz Imp

(6,307 posts)
14. I have not ever seen a sworn statement from the witness in the Jane Doe/Katie Johnson case (They are the same person)
Mon Jul 28, 2025, 10:25 PM
Monday

See these Snopes articles about that case:

https://www.snopes.com/news/2016/06/23/donald-trump-rape-lawsuit/

https://www.snopes.com/news/2024/09/03/trump-epstein-katie-johnson/

Michael Cohen has said that he never heard Trump mention Epstein once while he worked for him, so I find it is highly unlikely Cohen ever threatened anyone involved in the Epstein files.

moniss

(7,767 posts)
15. Cohen not hearing about Epstein doesn't mean he never
Mon Jul 28, 2025, 10:43 PM
Monday

issued threats to a woman to shut her up. Crumb The 1st didn't have to tell him all the gory details and in fact I would be surprised if he did in any of the matters in which he wanted Cohen to threaten people. It would give him some wiggle room if ever being investigated. He could spin a tale. Snopes is not the end all arbiter of truth. It is entirely possible that every word from Jane Doe and Tiffany Doe is absolutely true. For example the picture that the media typically carries for Maxwell is that she was "recruiter" and that Epstein was the one doing sexual assault. According to the interview last evening the victim was adamant that Maxwell was deeply involved in sexual acts of her own against victims before Epstein even was in the room.

dlilafae

(266 posts)
9. who is he putting in his cabinet, and
Mon Jul 28, 2025, 08:30 PM
Monday

who does he pal around with? This is what he stands for.

summer_in_TX

(3,717 posts)
10. The "list" is a good way to deflect and distract.
Mon Jul 28, 2025, 08:36 PM
Monday

Since there are photo and video evidence he kept, almost certainly as kompromat, all a prosecutor would have to do to generate a list is to identify the perps. Many were famous, so are likely to be easy to identify.

Trump should not be the only target of the investigation. They all need to be identified. To achieve justice for the "little ones" the victims of the machinations and perversions of the wealthy and powerful.

B.See

(5,980 posts)
16. Funny how MAGATs are
Mon Jul 28, 2025, 11:38 PM
Monday

always quick to label a Democrat a pedo or predator like they did Biden, just for giving someone a hug, but Mr. "grab them by the p--sy" who walks in on nude underaged beauty contestants, and has been accused of assault or misconduct by no less than two dozen women, needs irrefutable proof of guilt when Democrats begin leaning into some quite damning "circumstances."

Seems to me Donald has been quacking like a fkn duck, and for quite some time.

moniss

(7,767 posts)
17. As experts in the field of sex crimes have said
Mon Jul 28, 2025, 11:55 PM
Monday

when you have so many coming forward and it has gone on for years the likelihood is very strong that there are many more who haven't come forward.

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