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jg10003

(1,049 posts)
Sun Jul 27, 2025, 09:33 PM Jul 27

Reply to "The fall of Israel": Governments make war and innocent people suffer

The German government started a war and 600,000 German civilians, including children, were killed by allied air raids.

The Japanese government started a war and almost one million Japanese civilians, including children, were killed. (About 250,000 were killed by the atomic bombs, the rest were killed by air raids.)

Hamas is the government of Gaza. Hamas started a war with Israel. Civilians in Gaza are suffering.

After the second bomb fell on Nagasaki the Japanese Supreme Council was deadlocked on the issue of surrender. The emperor intervened, declaring that continuing the war would lead to the destruction of the nation. He therefore decided to accept the Allied terms for surrender. Hamas can likewise end the suffering in Gaza by surrendering and returning the hostages. But they will not because they see all Palestinians, including children, as soldiers in the war to eradicate Israel. This is why Hamas does not distinguish between military and civilian deaths. All Palestinians, according to Hamas, should be martyrs to the cause. Israel is not trying to kill all Palestinians (that would be actual genocide), they are trying to defeat Hamas. Unfortunately in this war Israel's enemy is hiding behind civilians in a high density urban area. The suffering will end when Hamas either surrenders or is defeated.

People who blame Israel for the suffering need to answer this question; what should Israel do about Hamas?
Should Israel simply stop the fighting and allow Hamas to continue their rule of Gaza and wait for the next October 7th?

Should Israel leave Gaza? Remember Israel withdrew completely from Gaza in 2005. Since then Gaza had been an autonomous self-governing region. After 2005 Gaza received billions in foreign aid. Instead of using the money to build a nation, Hamas used the money to build tunnels underneath schools and hospitals, and buy rockets to fire into Israel. They did this because they believe it is their holy mission to destroy Israel, even if they have to sacrifice their own children.

I am not saying Israel is blameless, they are not. Israel has made many mistakes, particularly on the West Bank. I also believe that Netanyahu is more interested in staying out of jail then ending the war. However all the problems come from one source; the refusal of Hamas, and others like them, to accept the existence of a Jewish nation in the middle of the Arab Muslim world. It is that one fundamental attitude that is the source of all problems. Imagine how different history would be if the Arab countries had accepted the 1948 partition.

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Reply to "The fall of Israel": Governments make war and innocent people suffer (Original Post) jg10003 Jul 27 OP
And people were agast when Hitler started bombing civilian populations. Eko Jul 27 #1
Are you referring to the Japanese massacre of Chinese, Korean, and Filipino? jg10003 Jul 27 #2
Japanese massacre of civilians Eko Jul 27 #3
Civilian deaths are horrific - agree 100% Mossfern Jul 27 #4
Flawed premise. Hamas terrorists might see Palestinian civilians as soldiers... brush Jul 27 #5

Eko

(9,701 posts)
1. And people were agast when Hitler started bombing civilian populations.
Sun Jul 27, 2025, 09:37 PM
Jul 27

And the Japanese massacre of civilians is to this day looked at as a monstrous act.

jg10003

(1,049 posts)
2. Are you referring to the Japanese massacre of Chinese, Korean, and Filipino?
Sun Jul 27, 2025, 09:43 PM
Jul 27

If so, then you are correct. However if you are referring to the Allied bombing of Japan then that is a much debated subject.

Eko

(9,701 posts)
3. Japanese massacre of civilians
Sun Jul 27, 2025, 09:47 PM
Jul 27

is one of the reasons that the Allies bombed Japan.
To be clear I said "Japanese massacre of civilians" so that would be the Japanese massacre of civilians.

Mossfern

(4,388 posts)
4. Civilian deaths are horrific - agree 100%
Sun Jul 27, 2025, 10:03 PM
Jul 27

But that's what happens in wars.
That's why people try to avoid wars - well, except for warmongers.

One major issue in the Israel/Palestinian conflict is the absolute belief by Hamas that Israel should not exist - and the other is that of the Right Wing in Israel who believe that Israel is a gift to the Jewish people from God.

I personally have issues with both.

We have seen Palestinian leaders in videos claiming that they celebrate their children's deaths as martyrs - martyrs for what I ask? On the other hand I see the seething hatred and abuse of Palestinians by West Bank settlers who teach their children hate. Both are to be condemned.

I ask; why doesn't Hamas at this point release whatever hostages they have? At this point, they have no value in negotiations. Israel needs to denounce any plans to annex Palestinian land for Donald Dirty Drawers' development plans, withdraw from Gaza and help to restore the damage they have done.

Both sides have intransigent leaders that need to be replaced.
It will take generations to ameliorate the psychological damage that has been done.
Fortunately there are groups who are trying to work toward this. We should publicize and celebrate those who would be peacemakers - and we need to call attention to their existence.

 

brush

(61,033 posts)
5. Flawed premise. Hamas terrorists might see Palestinian civilians as soldiers...
Sun Jul 27, 2025, 10:14 PM
Jul 27

but the innocent Gazans don't. They just want the war, killing and starvation to end.

As for gettng rid of the terrorists it's not that complicated. Starve their asses out like Netanyahu is doing to the Palestinians.

They'll surrende in their tunnels once there's no food left.

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