Banging an "underage woman"? Well...that's just having game and gettin' lucky...what's wrong with that.

Being a child-fucker ? Well...dem's fightin' words.

And calling him a pedophile...that's going right over their heads. I'm suspect 50% think a pedophile (if they can pronounce it) is a tool ya use to take sharp edges off bicycle parts.

Let's call it like it is...he's a child-fucker. That they'll understand.

I know, I know...(as my mother would say) "language please". But anything else is just sprinkling sugar on a turd.

He raped children.

the Epstein files who allegedly raped children needs to be charged.

…even rape is a negotiable term. They’re still stuck in the “but was she asking’ for it” mentality wanting to excuse it because of her clothing, or her makeup, or some other f’ing rationalization. Even maga women find it easy to say “well what did she expect?”

You and I hear rape and say holy shit. They hear rape and say…meh…maybe.

..and the rationalizations you mentioned are not nearly as 'acceptable', even in MAGA Land, as they once were.

Probably Not on my lifetime.

Strictly speaking, pedophilia is sexual attraction to pre-pubescent children.

Trump and Epstein's tastes, by all accounts, were for girls in their mid-teens. The technical term for this is ephebophilia. The dividing line between the two is the onset of puberty.

I'm honestly kind of surprised that the media doesn't use the latter term to cover for him. Everyone knows what pedophilia means whereas I'd bet relatively few have ever heard of ephebophilia.

Using the latter term would make him sound a hell of a lot less creepy than he is and make people more likely to tune it out. When people hear a word they don't understand, they tend to ignore it, in my experience.

And he made romantic comments to prepubescent girls. Prepubescent is usually defined as younger than 13.

Several 12 year old girls have claimed to be victims too. I'm sure they didn't check their IDs before grooming them.

Too bad we can't get Ivanka to tell us when he started feeling her up on his lap.

However, the average MAGA can't understand that word. They is dumb and cannot brain, as my late friend Molly Wolf would have put it, Therefore, pedophile, which some of them will get, or child-fucker, which the rest of them will surely understand, or child-rapist, which at least those of them with daughters will get.

Technically, a woman is not a legal adult. All females are legal. Period. I think you mean "a woman is legally an adult". It's the same issue about "illegal immigrants" versus "immigrants here illegally".

It's a creepy distinction always used by predators - determining whether or not their actions are "legal" based on the age of the victim.

As if assaulting a female is akin to being legally old enough to order a pint of brew

Describing persons. Just one example of a source describing why:

https://www.media-diversity.org/how-to-be-inclusive-and-grammatically-correct-a-guide-for-journalists-on-the-gender-beat/

See also:

https://libguides.massgeneral.org/APA7/biasfree-language

BBC
https://www.bbc.com › news › world-us-canada-64513342

Yale honours black girl wrongly reported to police - BBC

The neighbour reported her as "a little black woman walking, spraying stuff on the sidewalks and trees", according to a recording of the call obtained by CNN.

sex with a minor
sex with an underage woman
sex with an underage girl

We don't need to waste words, when a single one syllable word is clear concise and accurate.

RAPE

"but she didn't look thirteen!!!"

The age of consent in 11 States is 18 years. 17 year olds are underage in those states. The appropriate term is not children, it is minors.

from Merriam-Webster:
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/child

calling 18 year olds (Alabama and Nebraska) or 20 year olds (Mississippi) 'çhildren' is an affront to common sense. 17 year olds would not be considered children by most people IMO, but given my age, they do look like kids, and probably did to Epstein's clients like Prince Andrew.

Anyway the OP saying "UNDERAGE GIRL" is redundant is wrong. Underage Girls or Minors are is appropriate language. An 18 year old is not a child.

age of majority in most states. I am absolutely fascinated by the defensive deflections in this thread.

"Definition of the word Child" quoting Miriam Webster is "1b. a person not yet of the age of majority."

Therefore, by the definition you quoted, 18 year olds (Alabama and Nebraska) or 20 year olds (Mississippi) are children.

My point stands. Underage Girls is appropriate language.

:reface:

What some people are hiding.

17 and under children. I certainly hope there aren't many people who consider a 17 year old as an adult. Legally, in the US, anyone under 18 is a child. The United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child defines child as, "A human being below the age of 18 years unless under the law applicable to the child, majority is attained earlier." The NIH defines keywords referring to age as follows:

and understandable to the majority of the population.

So is 'Epstein's clients raped children' when the girls were under the age of consent. The age of consent is 18 in Florida, 17 in New York, and 18 in California. Same diff.

That's what this is.

And I am sure that the trafficking empire that Epstein ran included little boys as well as little girls. Children sold into sex slavery.

And Trump was his partner.

I don’t think Epstein worked with that clientele. Lindsey won’t be on the list.

Could be third party brokerage deals...off the books,so to speak

They try to normalize it because many MAGA are into that sort of thing. Just look at the insane amount of child abuse going in in churches and church groups. It's sick.

churches and church groups, it's child and youth athletics, Boy Scouts of America, gymnastic programs, etc etc etc

Many organizations don't want to acknowledge it, nor even try to prevent it????????

An adult I know, was asked to coach a 12-16 YO boys team. That particular organization ran him through a security process that included running him thru the National Crime Data Base, Colorado State Crime Data base, and even hired an excellent local Private Investigation Company to thoroughly research him before hiring him as a coach.........He said they also instituted rules including one that NO ONE except the coach was allowed in the locker rooms at any time, not even parents..........period. No other teams in that league did any of that........

You can add male or female, if needed.

refer to Epstein's victims as "underage women." If they're underage they're not women, they're girls. Children! At least the oxymoron "underage girls" is accurate, though the use of the word "underage" is legalistic - it really denotes the concept of statutory rape, a situation where the victim is considered too young to be able to consent to a sex act, whether literally coerced or violent or otherwise. It's always considered coerced. But realistically a sex act doesn't magically become legal or acceptable on the day the victim is no longer "underage" - Epstein coerced or raped women who were legal adults as well, like the artist Maria Farmer, and they are victims, too.

I have to wonder whether the outrage would have been greater at the early stages of the investigations of Epstein and Maxwell if the victims had been boys instead of girls, since teenage girls seem to be considered fair game by a lot of people, especially if they look "adult." So far there's only one known male victim, an intern who was sixteen when Epstein molested him; he has sued Epstein's estate.

Consider the Ohio State wrestlers case. People didn’t get outraged until much later, and many still aren’t outraged. Of course, the victims and survivors in that case were generally older than Epstein’s. But in both cases there was a huge power imbalance and unwillingness to take action by people who were notified of the abuse.

Another twist—the very wealthy Lex Wexner is involved (allegedly) in both cases.

in the sense that the student wrestlers, most of whom would have been at least 18, were molested by the team doctor during physical exams. The doctor's exams were well-known to be unnecessarily invasive and inappropriate but nobody did anything about him for years (Gym Jordan being a prime offender in this regard). Epstein's victims were younger, mostly girls with difficult family or financial circumstances, and had been specifically groomed and procured by Maxwell for Epstein. Both situations involve power imbalances; the Ohio State situation is disturbing in a different way because the molestation had been known and tolerated for years - maybe to protect the university or the team's reputation. Epstein kept his activities on the down low, known only to the rich old pervs who got to participate. I'm wondering whether Epstein would have got such a sweet deal from Alex Acosta in Florida if Maxwell had been procuring 14-year-old boys for him instead of girls.

We will never know and can only speculate about it.

Farmer said on LOD that she reported the abuse to the FBI very early on. And many other people knew how suspicious, at the very least, the parties involving young teens were. Similarly, the athletes told OSU authorities and (as in the Penn State football case) corrective action did not occur.

... and becomes a WOMAN before she can bring charges against the person who knew what they were doing when they did it to her.

And I do agree that we tend to get tangled up in semantics over this issue. In the case of rape, we can be sure that the male knew what he was doing when he did it. The female - especially if she's underage - often does not understand what's happening.

Calling pedophilia “incurable” is dangerous, imo, because it discourages pedophiles from going to therapy to try and prevent themselves from acting their compulsions out. Remember that they have not harmed anyone before they act their compulsions out - preventing them from doing so should be the goal.

Prison in the US is not a good place to get mental help. There are a number of reasons for this, but, often people come out worse than they went in.

The desert island thing I’m sure is hyperbole, but, I think we should be careful about punishments for the same reason I disagree with the death penalty. We need to treat all humans with basic human rights, no matter what they’ve done. Trying to not have an emotional response to the most vile people is often hard, but, it’s something we need to do, because, our government should never have the power to take a life or torture prisoners, no matter what.

I heard Claire McCaskill say it on Nicole's show the other night and my back went up. I know she didn't mean anything by it, but the media really needs to get it right.

Girls. They raped girls. Period.

The insidious societal normalization of referring to child rape victims as "underage women," minimizing the crime of rape and its effects on child victims.

"Girls. They raped girls. Period." Perfect.

Using the words "girl" and "woman" as you describe has some ambiguity because your usage is not the only way those words are used... and it's not a sexist issue because the same situation exists with "boy" and "man."

A 20 year old woman might tell a parent/friend, "I met a really nice boy last night." A 20 year old man might tell a parent/friend, "I met a really nice girl last night." In neither case is the parent/friend likely to interpret that as meaning they met a nice underage potential romantic companion. And these people they met may turn into, you guessed it, boyfriends or girlfriends.

Similarly, an under-18 person may sometimes be called a "nice young man" or a "nice young woman," particularly by people of an older generation. You may prefer they didn't, but it is not a terribly uncommon usage. I"m not saying that your definitions are wrong, I'm just saying that that is not the only way the words are used IRL.

As mentioned by others, "minor" and "underage female" would be some possible unambiguous options.

I do see your point that referring to Epstein's victims as young women is problematic. But your headline and first two sentences put forth that you think they should simply be called "girls" (since "underage" would be redundant). But because of common usage, that is inadequate. "Epstein invited powerful people to his island to have sex with girls he supplied" does not make clear that these females are minors. In this case, your proposed fix of calling the victims girls rather than underage women can actually make the activity seem LESS nefarious. Because whether you like it or not, 18+ year old females are often referred to as girls, in common conversation, and in decades of songs and movies. Heck, prostitutes are "call girls," not "call women." So calling Epstein's victims simply "girls" does them a disservice, as it is LESS clear to the reader/listener that they are underage than if they were referred to as "underage women."

It might be best to simply say they were having sex with minors. There's enough horror right there, regardless of the gender of the victims. But if you want to make clear that the victims are female, there has to be something that makes clear to the general public that they were underage, and the word "girl" simply doesn't do that, because the word is so widely used in other ways. People may hear the word "girls" and not assume they were necessarily under the age of consent, because your usage of the word is not universal, and is not the way everyone will automatically interpret the word. It is important to communicate to all that these people were underage, and I believe that simply calling them 'girls" does not do that.

The media is (willingly or unwillingly) using harmful language that minimizes rape victims. This should absolutely be called out, and, is unfortunately all too acceptable.

that black and white. It is also a stand-in descriptor for gender and most young women would identify with being a "girl".
There is no foul here.

attempting to send out signals, I deal with real people every day.

And for your reading pleasure: You may be interested in the highlighted parts, so please, DO keep trying.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/girl

of the usage is by the msm, and rape-enablers. Pretending that is not what they are doing by pasting dictionary pages does not change the facts. Perceive what you will, as will we.

Just as men would to be referred to as "boys," but moreso because of the extreme sexism & the horrific effects of same.

Girls and rape are appropriate terms to describe pedo activities in this instance.

Ty for this thread & drawing what should be an obvious distinction.

get it now. Websters dictionary, the gold standard, is a "distraction" because I didn't post "I AGREE!". I get it now.,totally 100% logical. They are obviously openly supporting and promoting rape, how could I not see it before?
Going forward, I will correct every male or female who uses the word "girl" when addressing any other female that is 17 years and 364 days old or younger. How dare they be rape enablers. This is outrageous and cannot be tolerated!

where I march in step or risk being called MAGA for the ten thousandth time? God forbid I actually think for myself, right? No true Democrat would EVER do that, would they? FFS, This shit cracks me up.
Your foundation is flawed. If that insults you, it's not my fault.
Please keep trying.

It's really a simple message.

understand what is being said, and it's (at best) misplaced outrage in regards to use of common US English.
"Underage girl" is a valid use of the noun. It is used in common language everyday, and it's not at all inaccurate. It COULD be depending on how it is used, but in this case, it is not. Ref the material I already posted.
Now, the "underage women" part of this argument -could- be valid as it is in conflict with itself in most common applications.
I also disagree with the ridiculous notion that the media is in any way excusing rape.

If someone wants to post some granular disassembly of the use of common phrases, they should be open to the granular disassembly of the mistakes in their assertions.

debate skills. I feel like I have been engaged now.

A girl who is under 18 is well, an underage girl. But that's just me.

I know it could theoretically be confused with other animal species, but not likely.

population.

... legal age limit? We're all children. I've seen "child of..." used when referring to an adult. I also have trouble with the common term, as used on the news, including "woman" in any phrase. I think "female" is probably better... also, there may have been a few males involved. Maybe they should just say, for example, "the victims were between the ages of 11 and 15 years old." Yesterday, a victim on the Jen 6 pm MSNBC show said some of the girls had no breast development. I don't think the general public has any idea just how bad Epstein and Maxwell were.

from Merriam-Webster:
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/child

Because it is ALWAYS a descriptor of a minor who has been raped, and it is ALWAYS used to minimize that rape.

Rec

This the the same sort of thing they do when they make children have babies.

More and more sealions will dive off the raft in an attempt to downplay this as something other than what it is not to better assuage their own liver-spotted egos.