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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsThere has never been a plausible case of Israeli genocide.
I've avoided this conversation for more than the past year. It's likely that this was discussed contemporaneously with the BBC interview, but that I didn't see it. At this point though, as people begin to finally realize that they've been duped by an extraordinary Iranian propaganda campaign, it would be immensely helpful if people would, at the very least, stop making the claim of adjudicated genocide... right?
The video is 1:28 long. From its description:
Judge Donoghue: You know, Im glad I have a chance to address that because the Courts test for deciding whether to impose [provisional] measures uses the idea of plausibility, but the test is the plausibility of the rights that are asserted by the applicant, in this case South Africa. So the court decided that the Palestinians had a plausible right to be protected from genocide and that South Africa had the right to present that claim in the court. It then looked at the facts as well, but it did not decide and this is something where Im correcting whats often said in the media it didnt decide that the claim of genocide was plausible."

sheshe2
(92,962 posts)I am not sure why anyone would have an issue with this post. You/The interview stated facts of the court's ruling. Nothing kooky about that.
Thank you, Oilem.
OilemFirchen
(7,271 posts)This video popped up on my YouTube home page. UKLFI Charitable Trust had just posted it. I'd never seen it, so I thought I'd bring it here and, ya know, poke the bear a bit.
How are you She? Doing well, I hope?
sheshe2
(92,962 posts)Ah, the bear woke for a moment only to be told to take a seat by their peers.
*sigh*
I am doing okay, the best I can do in these times. It's hard for all of us. It really is good to see you again, Oilem.
muriel_volestrangler
(104,172 posts)Led by Donkeys on UKFLI and its "charity": https://www.instagram.com/reel/DMNs0rEI26M/
Jonathan Turner is scum: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/may/10/uk-lawyers-for-israel-condemned-over-claim-war-may-reduce-obesity-in-gaza
Celerity
(50,982 posts)lapucelle
(20,341 posts)Here's an embedded clip straight from the BBC.
Joan Donoghue, who has just retired as president of the International Court of Justice (ICJ), spoke to BBC Hardtalks Stephen Sackur about the case brought by South Africa to the ICJ over alleged violations of the Genocide Convention by Israel.
Ms Donoghue explained that the court decided the Palestinians had a plausible right to be protected from genocide and that South Africa had the right to present that claim in the court.
She said that, contrary to some reporting, the court did not make a ruling on whether the claim of genocide was plausible, but it did emphasise in its order that there was a risk of irreparable harm to the Palestinian right to be protected from genocide.
26 April 2024
https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-middle-east-68906919
---------------------------------------
What's really interesting is that both Ireland and Amnesty International want the legal definition of genocide to be changed (relaxed) so that the war against Hamas (or, indeed, any war) will fit the new definition.
Ireland's Deputy Prime Minister and Foreign Affairs Minister Micheal Martin said he had secured the cabinet's approval to intervene in the case against Israel, and said that the intervention would be filed later this month.
In a press release, Ireland's Department of Foreign Affairs said that "By legally intervening in South Africa's case, Ireland will be asking the ICJ to broaden its interpretation of what constitutes the commission of genocide."
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-12-11/ty-article/ireland-to-intervene-in-south-africas-genocide-case-against-israel-at-world-court/00000193-b6d1-dd53-a3f3-f7fb1d410000
EdmondDantes_
(648 posts)The court didn't rule Israel was committing genocide, but also didn't rule they weren't and didn't dismiss the charges as Israel wanted. The court granted most of the requests for Israel to stop doing things that do fit the definition of genocide.
How often does the ICJ feel the need to say a group has the right to be safe from genocide without there being a significant threat of it?
And really if you're arguing that "it's technically not ruled genocide yet", you're not really making a compelling affirmative case for being a good actor. Sure Hamas sucks but this isn't a good defense.
writerJT
(344 posts)What were doing has not technically been ruled genocide as of right now!
Not a catchy bumper sticker, but oh well.
Response to EdmondDantes_ (Reply #2)
iemanja This message was self-deleted by its author.
Martin68
(26,191 posts)arguments from other authorities that Israel is indeed committing genocide in Gaza.
sheshe2
(92,962 posts)TY in advance.
krawhitham
(5,004 posts)Martin68
(26,191 posts)for you. I checked the organizations listed with https://mediabiasfactcheck.com which conducts a thorough and transparent analysis of bias and reliability.
https://www.hrw.org/news/2024/12/19/israels-crime-extermination-acts-genocide-gaza
https://www.jurist.org/news/2024/12/amnesty-international-accuses-israel-of-genocide-against-palestinians-in-gaza/
https://www.msnbc.com/top-stories/latest/israel-gaza-genocide-netanyahu-rcna183485
https://internationalpolicy.org/publications/growing-consensus-on-israels-atrocities-in-gaza/
https://www.commondreams.org/news/israel-is-committing-genocide-in-gaza
SunSeeker
(56,173 posts)You are citing activists.
Martin68
(26,191 posts)predictably you pretended to be interested in facts and other interpretations of those facts, but had already decided on your one version of reality and were not ever going to consider an alternative view. You, sir, are the narrow-minded activist. I believe there is room for debate on the issue of genocide in Gaza. I happen to have come to the conclusion it is indeed clearly genocide based on numerous arguments presented by experts and scholars in the field. I notice you imply that only a "legal" authority can present valid interpretations of genocide - that is an extremely narrow and unsupportable view.
SunSeeker
(56,173 posts)Last edited Wed Jul 23, 2025, 11:25 PM - Edit history (1)
BTW, I am neither a "sir" nor a "narrow-minded activist." And I certainly know the meaning of the word authority in this context. We just disagree as to the applicable authority. That's no reason to resort to personal insults.
highplainsdem
(57,454 posts)Israel has done since then.
Johnny2X2X
(23,095 posts)What the hell is wrong with people? Tens of thousands of innocent civilians have been slaughtered since this ruling 2 months into the war.
BiBi literally went on TV with Trump and said their plan explicitly. They are going to kill or expel 100% of the people living in Gaza, so they can sell their land to their real estate friends. It is the definition of ethnic cleansing and genocide. Theyre killing dozens of civilians a day who are lining up for food. It is an absolute evil being perpetrated by a far Right government in Israel.
Everyone should be appalled people are still defending it, especially with nonsense like this from 18 months ago. Shame on you.
SunSeeker
(56,173 posts)Last edited Wed Jul 23, 2025, 05:42 AM - Edit history (1)
Serbs were ethnically cleansed out of their ancestral homeland of Kosovo by the ethnic Albanians of Kosovo, killing over 1,000 Serbs in the process, and nobody gave a shit. In fact, US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice proudly announced the US recognized Kosovo's independence from Serbia in 2008, thus rewarding the ethnic cleansing.
Martin68
(26,191 posts)between the two is that ethnic cleansing can refer to the relocation of an ethnic group without killing them, while both genocide and ethnic cleansing can refer to killing all the members of an ethnic group to remove them from a particular location or population.
OilemFirchen
(7,271 posts)What has the ICJ said since then?
iemanja
(56,296 posts)In 2025, its whats called a slam dunk. The planned death camps should be a clue.
OilemFirchen
(7,271 posts)From your link:
This was interpreted by many, including some legal commentators, to mean that the court had concluded that the claim that Israel was committing genocide in Gaza was plausible.
This interpretation spread quickly, appearing in UN press releases, statements from campaign groups and many media outlets, including the BBC.
In April, however, Joan Donoghue, the president of the ICJ at the time of that ruling, said in a BBC interview that this was not what the court had ruled.
The ellipsis in the first paragraph obfuscates that the ICJ concluded that the Palestinians had a plausible right to be protected from genocide and that South Africa had the right to present that claim in the court. That some unnamed others, including unnamed "legal commentators" declared otherwise is not exactly newsworthy, nor useful. That the "interpretation spread quickly, appearing in UN press releases, statements from campaign groups and many media outlets, including the BBC" is likewise irrelevant, predictable and equally useless. In fact, all of those statements directly contradict the plain language from Joan Donoghue in the fourth paragraph, and is the thrust of this OP.
Your assertion that 'In 2024 they called the genocide claims "plausible"' is a howler and your link includes the massive punchline.
Then "In 2025, its whats called a slam dunk. The planned death camps should be a clue." Hilarious!
EdmondDantes_
(648 posts)Can you explain what's funny about if that's genocide or just indiscriminate mass killing including repeatedly firing on people gathering to get food rations? Because best case scenario there's still a whole lot of dead and severely injured people.
Like I said up thread, if you're reduced to arguing that Israel is only committing mass killings and starvation and not technical genocide you've already lost any claim that the country is acting morally.
OilemFirchen
(7,271 posts)I'm not making fun of anything other than the use of a cite which wholly disproves the assertion. That's been funny since I was in grade school and it remains so.
That you've suggested I find genocide funny is part of the dangerous semantics game used by those who continue to catapult Iranian propaganda. To be frank, it's, at best, you who are trivializing these allegations by suggesting that anyone other than a clinical sadist would find them anything but reprehensible.
BTW, I'm not arguing anything other than that the ICJ has taken the position that there has never been a plausible case of Israeli genocide. Look up. It's right there in the title!
EdmondDantes_
(648 posts)But keep telling yourself that you aren't diminishing the needless suffering by focusing on a technical definition of one group only saying that Israel needs to stop doing things that would be considered genocide (which they are not stopping like blocking aid). And so you have nothing but effectively saying "I'm rubber and you're glue" and accusing me of spreading Iranian propaganda.
Partisans of either side, Israel or Palestinian, seems capable of arguing in good faith or acknowledging anything negative about their side. It's disingenuous and only perpetuates the tragedies.
You can dissemble and pretend that your title inculcates against this being in a larger context, but that's simply not a believable claim. Not much thought is in complete isolation. You clearly are posting this because it bothers you that people are accusing Israel of genocide and instead of talking about what is happening on the ground, you make a fairly irrelevant but technically true point to distract from events on the ground.
iemanja
(56,296 posts)is sick. We are facing death camps former PM Olmert himself says are designed for ethnic cleaning, that Defense Minister Katz says will eventually hold all 2 million Gazans. Its as comedic as the Final Solution, which is exactly what this is. There is nothing funny about any of it.
For passersby, this is some context on the camp in Rafah: https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=20503002
Response to iemanja (Reply #37)
Post removed
sheshe2
(92,962 posts)Any more than tsf is The United States of America. He does not speak for me/ a majority of us any more than 'Yahu' speaks for all of Israel.
Martin68
(26,191 posts)not responsible for the conduct to the war, the same was true of Germans who did not support Hitler's genocide. So, don't blame "Germany, blame Hitler?" It doesn't work that way. I don't feel responsible for Trump's fascist conduct of a war agains immigrants but I'm afraid the United States, as a country, does indeed bear the responsibility for his actions. The same is true of Israel. I know the many Israelis and Jews are opposed to Netanyahu's handling of the war. I don't blame them - I love them. But Israel must take the blame for the decisions of the head of state, just as the US must take the blame for Trump's actions. Until the military mutinies or the people of Israel forcibly remove Netanyahu from office, that will remain true.
OilemFirchen
(7,271 posts)Ah... those were heady days, right?
sheshe2
(92,962 posts)Response to OilemFirchen (Original post)
Name removed Message auto-removed
iemanja
(56,296 posts)If the charges are bogus, they should have no problem defending against them.
sheshe2
(92,962 posts)You are condemning all of Israel! Will you condemn all of the US for atrocities that tsf is doing!
Words matter and these blanket statements need to STOP!
Cha
(313,133 posts)

sheshe2
(92,962 posts)This is really upsetting me tonight.
Cha
(313,133 posts)



I just posted on here something that got me more upset than usual

OilemFirchen
(7,271 posts)Hi Cha! Hope all is well.
Cha
(313,133 posts)


Cuthbert Allgood
(5,304 posts)But Israel is the country and the country, under the leadership of Bebe, is absolutely committing genocide. Of course that doesn't mean that every person who is Jewish is committing genocide. But Israel, the country, is. If Donald Trump ordered out military to do what the military of Israel is doing, we would 100% say that the United States is committing genocide even though I, a US citizen, am not.
It's not that hard unless you are trying to obfuscate.
lapucelle
(20,341 posts)It only has jurisdiction over individuals who are nationals of countries that are State Parties to a treaty known as the Rome Statute. Neither the US nor Israel are State Parties to the statute.
Cha
(313,133 posts)vid.
It's heartbreaking that so many wanted to teach VP Harris and Pres Biden a "lesson" and followed those who promoted "Leave it Blank" and "uncommitted"..
We were even told to "enjoy trump" by this Stupid Mayor that "endorsed" the Traitor.
Yeah, how does it feel to be so Sucked in by a Rapist, Racist, Felon, Traitor to the USA?

I hope you're Well.. Good to see you.


iemanja
(56,296 posts)now, not in 2024. The Israeli government is constructing a camp for 600,000 Gazans in Rafah, which they then plan to expand to contain all 2 million Palestinians. Israeli Defense Minister Katz says the Gazans will not be allowed to leave alive, unless they leave Palestine altogether. Former Israeli PM Olmert calls them concentration camps designed for ethnic cleaning. Thats not a Hamas spokesman, but the former Prime Minister of Israel.
https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2025/07/14/middleeast/israel-gaza-ehud-olmert-concentration-camp-intl
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/jul/07/israeli-minister-reveals-plan-to-force-population-of-gaza-into-camp-on-ruins-of-rafah
The plan is so evil, even the IDF resists it.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-said-to-warn-against-gaza-humanitarian-city-ex-pm-brands-it-concentration-camp/amp/
But Israel is nonetheless forging ahead
https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2025/7/16/israel-presses-ahead-gaza-concentration-camp-plans-despite-criticism
We are talking about 2 million souls. This is a human rights atrocity of historic dimension.
As citizens of the world, we have a responsibility to inform ourselves on that which we defend.
cliffside
(1,073 posts)LexVegas
(6,872 posts)Ping Tung
(3,087 posts)iemanja
(56,296 posts)Hamas is mere pretext. Also notice this video is from 2024 and is not current. The situation is now far more dire because of the planned death camp in Rafah.
Ping Tung
(3,087 posts)Albert Einstein
Duncan Grant
(8,757 posts)This is as evident as the wetness of water.
Ethnic cleansing. Blood-thirsty, indiscriminate reprisal murders. The execution of untold numbers of relief workers and journalists. Thousands upon thousands forced to endure suffering and inhumanity and death. So much horror to assuage egos its absolute evil.
And then theres the matter of Palestinian children and their worthless lives. Unforgivable. Unforgettable.
H2O Man
(77,396 posts)Thank you.
OilemFirchen
(7,271 posts)Bad enough to be a generic Jew, right?
Duncan Grant
(8,757 posts)You may be comforted by such statements, but it doesnt mean the truth is found there.
ILikePie92
(198 posts)Tens of thousands of dead innocent Palestinian children would disagree.
Samael13
(45 posts)But it is reprehensible for a country to target civilians. I wholeheartedly support the elimination of hamas i also know that Israel has the ability to get surgically precise when they want to be. I will always support their right to exist but the current netanyahu government is leading Israel down a path that will hurt the country in the long run