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Pototan

(2,739 posts)
Sun Jul 20, 2025, 09:08 PM Sunday

Where is the Gaza outrage in the US?

I'm talking about this "relief" effort headed up by an American non-profit. This atrocity moves huge amounts of starving people into a kill zone in which hundreds are gunned down by the IDF.

Who's paying for this? Who appointed the people administering this program? How much responsibly does the Trump Administration have?

These are the questions I'd like to see shouted to the piece of shit who currently resides in the White House.

79 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Where is the Gaza outrage in the US? (Original Post) Pototan Sunday OP
At this point I think a lot of people are more focused on the fascist takeover of their own country. BannonsLiver Sunday #1
I think most Americans Pototan Sunday #2
If they could, a fascist takeover of our own country wouldn't be occurring in the first place. W_HAMILTON Sunday #7
That's incorrect. muriel_volestrangler 23 hrs ago #64
lol all evidence to the contrary. BannonsLiver Sunday #27
"Most" ?? NO--- possibly only about 50 percent Jack Valentino Sunday #32
Isn't about "50%" Pototan Yesterday #36
TBH, I am struggling every damn day.... Happy Hoosier 1 hr ago #78
Agreed JustAnotherGen Yesterday #53
I think the vast majority of Americans have some opinion on Gaza Polybius Sunday #3
Americans did seem to have a strong, priority position Pototan Sunday #4
Funny how that all died out after tsf won. sheshe2 Sunday #11
Has anyone heard a peep from Jill Stein? Pototan Sunday #12
She crawled back under her rock from whence she came. sheshe2 Sunday #15
fyi Be Leave On Yesterday #38
Could you link me to any Pototan Yesterday #40
Yes, what a surprise. BannonsLiver Sunday #28
IKR!? sheshe2 Sunday #31
Right? mcar Yesterday #58
It's almost as if a switch was flipped to the off position. sheshe2 Yesterday #59
Oh, but Jill Stein is posting both sider shite on Musk's hellsite mcar Yesterday #62
Almost like it was manufactured outrage.... NT Happy Hoosier 1 hr ago #79
Trump has given us much else to worry about. Intractable Sunday #14
I'm guessing that you markodochartaigh Yesterday #34
Over on X - lots of Americans have it a top priority womanofthehills Yesterday #57
Kicked out of college. Kid Berwyn Sunday #5
The press should ask the questions Pototan Sunday #9
You asked about Jill Stein - I just saw some of her X posts womanofthehills Sunday #20
I don't see Trump's name in these tweets Pototan Sunday #30
Dear God, she's using Gaza to push her "both sides are the same" bullshit. SunSeeker Yesterday #33
she's done enough damage, now just rubbing it in LymphocyteLover Yesterday #35
Atrocities would be the correct term B.See Sunday #6
Agreed Pototan Sunday #10
So what would it take to actually get to that point of indefensibility, if we're not already there yet? TheRickles Yesterday #52
The point of my comment ISN'T B.See 18 hrs ago #69
Got it - apologies for misunderstanding your comment. TheRickles 18 hrs ago #70
Being silenced by Trump and Netanyahu. Initech Sunday #8
Palestine attacked Israelis civilians. Now they are stuck Melon Sunday #13
How many children need to be murdered Pototan Sunday #16
I don't think it is revenge at this point Ken Dayenu Sunday #18
In the meantime Pototan Sunday #26
If that is where Hamas is hiding Ken Dayenu Yesterday #43
Exactly. Hamas is responsible for putting civilians in harm's way. Oopsie Daisy Yesterday #49
"Palestine" did not attack Israeli civilians. AloeVera Sunday #19
Sure it did. October 7, 2023. They killed, raped, tortured Melon Sunday #22
Never mind. Have a nice evening. AloeVera Sunday #24
Perhaps you should ready some of the forensics. sheshe2 Yesterday #41
"Five men" UpInArms 1 hr ago #76
That was Hamas BlueSpot Sunday #29
I agree it's gone to far. But Hamas is the Palestinian people. Since 2007 Melon Yesterday #39
This message was self-deleted by its author Celerity Yesterday #46
I agree it's gone too far as well Ken Dayenu Yesterday #47
No. For a start, over half of Palestinians in the occupied territories live in the West Bank, not Gaza muriel_volestrangler 23 hrs ago #67
Post removed Post removed 17 hrs ago #71
If Palestinians are not responsible for Hamas Ken Dayenu Yesterday #55
The mental health of these societies is not the point right now. AloeVera 23 hrs ago #66
I think I do understand why Palestinians would go on a rampage (or at least I can try) Ken Dayenu 22 hrs ago #68
I nearly fell off my chair reading the title of your post (in a good way)! AloeVera 10 hrs ago #73
Understanding Ken Dayenu 1 hr ago #75
What a fucking heartless thing to say. Condoning war crimes. Its shameful erodriguez Sunday #23
So was 10/07. sheshe2 Yesterday #42
So the systemic starvation and collective punishment of innocent people are justified? erodriguez Yesterday #45
I did not say that, now did I. sheshe2 Yesterday #60
And that's a permanent blank check for Bibi's deliberate campaign of civilian murder, is it? Orrex Sunday #25
It is difficult to be a Jew right now Ken Dayenu Yesterday #51
I would imagine that it's difficult to be a Palestinian, too. Orrex Yesterday #61
Absolutely difficult to be a Palestinian right now Ken Dayenu 23 hrs ago #65
Really? atreides1 Yesterday #56
Well, there's plenty of outrage over Gaza right here. Intractable Sunday #17
One consequence of Gaza outrage in the US is shitting in the White House Martin Eden Sunday #21
America voted for Trump Ken Dayenu Yesterday #48
"Americans got exactly what they wanted" Martin Eden Yesterday #50
Aw man, the whole thing is just heartbreaking. calimary Yesterday #37
K&R spanone Yesterday #44
I feel like there's no way for that outrage to get through. If we had elected Kamala, she could have done Scrivener7 Yesterday #54
buried under anti-semitism? WhiteTara Yesterday #63
The rage burned out raging against the Biden Admin's inability to control Israel's war. maxsolomon 17 hrs ago #72
Or maybe they know they'll be doxxed, intimidated, kicked out of college, jailed, deported, lose their jobs? AloeVera 10 hrs ago #74
Right now, I'm wondering.... Happy Hoosier 1 hr ago #77

BannonsLiver

(19,419 posts)
1. At this point I think a lot of people are more focused on the fascist takeover of their own country.
Sun Jul 20, 2025, 09:14 PM
Sunday

W_HAMILTON

(9,340 posts)
7. If they could, a fascist takeover of our own country wouldn't be occurring in the first place.
Sun Jul 20, 2025, 09:38 PM
Sunday

There's also the inconvenient truth that much of the sentiment surrounding what was happening in Gaza was artificially generated to use as a cudgel against Biden and then Kamala.

Now that those same views aren't generating the same sort of social media engagement, those same views aren't as prevalent. Funny how that works.

muriel_volestrangler

(104,139 posts)
64. That's incorrect.
Mon Jul 21, 2025, 09:54 AM
23 hrs ago
Americans are increasingly skeptical of Israeli actions in Gaza, according to a new CNN poll conducted by SSRS that also finds rising sentiment that the US should pull back on military aid to Israel.

Only 23% of Americans say Israel’s actions have been fully justified, a 27-point drop from a October 2023 poll taken shortly after Hamas’ October 7 attacks. Another 27% now say those actions have been partially justified and 22% say that they have not been justified at all. In October 2023, just 8% said Israel’s actions were not justified at all.

This drop cuts across party lines but is far larger among Democrats and independents. Since 2023, the share of Democrats who say that Israel’s actions have been fully justified has dropped from 38% to just 7%, the share among independents from 45% to 14%, and the share among Republicans from 68% to 52%.

Since this March, the share of Democrats and Democratic-leaning adults saying that the US provides too much military aid for Israel has risen from 44% to 59% while the share of Republican-aligned adults saying that has stayed steady at 24%. Democratic-aligned adults under the age of 35 are particularly opposed to US military aid to Israel, with 72% saying the US is doing too much, including 43% who say that the US should stop aid to Israel entirely and another 29% saying that it should reduce the amount of military aid.

https://edition.cnn.com/2025/07/18/politics/cnn-poll-israel-support

The views are more prevalent than ever; it's just that you personally aren't seeing the social media talk about them.

Happy Hoosier

(9,007 posts)
78. TBH, I am struggling every damn day....
Tue Jul 22, 2025, 08:37 AM
1 hr ago

... to remain productive and not give in to spare. I do not have a lot of extra energy.

JustAnotherGen

(35,695 posts)
53. Agreed
Mon Jul 21, 2025, 08:42 AM
Yesterday

ETA - my country has reports coming out from Dachau like *Detention Centers* in place like Louisiana.

Polybius

(20,535 posts)
3. I think the vast majority of Americans have some opinion on Gaza
Sun Jul 20, 2025, 09:24 PM
Sunday

However, not enough to put it in their top 5 or even top 10.

Pototan

(2,739 posts)
12. Has anyone heard a peep from Jill Stein?
Sun Jul 20, 2025, 10:20 PM
Sunday

I know she does paid speaking engagements to friendly audiences, but she no longer says controversial things like the "President is engaging in "Genocide". I'm told that even during these infrequent occurrences she's pretty tame, and still no criticism of Putin.

She did her job,,,,again.

Pototan

(2,739 posts)
40. Could you link me to any
Mon Jul 21, 2025, 12:40 AM
Yesterday

criticism of her pal, Vlad Putin, the war criminal?

Putin is committing the same atrocities in Ukraine as the IDF is in Gaza.

Beside that, I don't read a quote from Jill Stein, just a press release from the "green party".

Other people are quoted, but not her. Interesting

mcar

(44,942 posts)
58. Right?
Mon Jul 21, 2025, 09:06 AM
Yesterday

No more protesting in front of the White House. No cutesy names for TSF.

Gee, I wonder why?

sheshe2

(92,925 posts)
59. It's almost as if a switch was flipped to the off position.
Mon Jul 21, 2025, 09:24 AM
Yesterday

Then boom! Not a single protest.

mcar

(44,942 posts)
62. Oh, but Jill Stein is posting both sider shite on Musk's hellsite
Mon Jul 21, 2025, 09:48 AM
Yesterday

so see, nothing has changed.

womanofthehills

(10,011 posts)
57. Over on X - lots of Americans have it a top priority
Mon Jul 21, 2025, 09:06 AM
Yesterday

Our media doesn’t. Today a kindergarten was targeted. I’m having a hard time with our Congress voting for more money for Israel without a statement like - no food for the children of Gaza, no money - at the least!

Times of Gaza -

Israel bombed a kindergarten in Gaza, resulting in injuries among the children.


?s=46&t=YZgyyp4w_z7vW3neKxa6cQ

Little kids don’t understand why there is barely any food
Little Roz screams in hunger with nothing to eat, after two years of siege and starvation in Gaza.


?s=46&t=YZgyyp4w_z7vW3neKxa6cQ

Pototan

(2,739 posts)
9. The press should ask the questions
Sun Jul 20, 2025, 09:52 PM
Sunday

and if American citizens are afraid to protest, we have serious problems here, also.

womanofthehills

(10,011 posts)
20. You asked about Jill Stein - I just saw some of her X posts
Sun Jul 20, 2025, 11:12 PM
Sunday

She’s pretty active on X. I’m glad to see she is posting a lot about the genocide.

“EVERYONE is now starving in Gaza, children, elders, healthy adults, even doctors are collapsing mid shift in hunger. Yet weeks of food relief is prepositioned & ready to go in a heart beat.

“Without US aid to Israel, this would be over now.
It's in our hands.”


?s=46&t=YZgyyp4w_z7vW3neKxa6cQ


?s=46&t=YZgyyp4w_z7vW3neKxa6cQ

SunSeeker

(56,167 posts)
33. Dear God, she's using Gaza to push her "both sides are the same" bullshit.
Mon Jul 21, 2025, 12:01 AM
Yesterday

And giving Elon clicks on X to boot!

Jill Stein is an idiotic Putin puppet.

B.See

(5,903 posts)
6. Atrocities would be the correct term
Sun Jul 20, 2025, 09:32 PM
Sunday

and I would think it is increasingly getting to the point where one would be hard pressed to defend it.

TheRickles

(2,858 posts)
52. So what would it take to actually get to that point of indefensibility, if we're not already there yet?
Mon Jul 21, 2025, 08:29 AM
Yesterday

Just curious - how much worse would it have to get? No more remaining buildings, no more surviving Gazans, etc.?

B.See

(5,903 posts)
69. The point of my comment ISN'T
Mon Jul 21, 2025, 03:31 PM
18 hrs ago

that we haven't already gotten there, but that there are those who are still trying to defend it.

TheRickles

(2,858 posts)
70. Got it - apologies for misunderstanding your comment.
Mon Jul 21, 2025, 03:52 PM
18 hrs ago

Though I wonder what it would take to convince those others....

Melon

(583 posts)
13. Palestine attacked Israelis civilians. Now they are stuck
Sun Jul 20, 2025, 10:23 PM
Sunday

In the aftermath of those actions.

Pototan

(2,739 posts)
16. How many children need to be murdered
Sun Jul 20, 2025, 10:30 PM
Sunday

for there to be enough revenge?

Collective punishment is a war crime.

Ken Dayenu

(101 posts)
18. I don't think it is revenge at this point
Sun Jul 20, 2025, 10:50 PM
Sunday

Hamas's stated goal is the destruction of Israel, so it is kind of hard to leave them around, particularly after Oct 7, but 20 months of war has proven they won't surrender and are next to impossible to eradicate without horrific collateral damage.

It is time to just agree to leave Gaza. Swap prisoners. The IDF has delivered the message that Oct 7th was a bad idea. It is up to the Palestinians if they want more of Hamas or less. It would be nice if they had elections every now and then.

AloeVera

(3,284 posts)
19. "Palestine" did not attack Israeli civilians.
Sun Jul 20, 2025, 11:11 PM
Sunday

Assigning collective guilt and inflicting collective punishment is a war crime.

Of course those are the views of the Israeli government too, and the "aftermath" of those views are the 17,000 + dead children, 9000+ dead women, who knows how many other civilians, the highest per capita child amputees in the world in a place with scant medical care; and starvation, human suffering and deprivation on a scale that should be unacceptable in a "civilized", rules-based world - though of course YMMV.

Melon

(583 posts)
22. Sure it did. October 7, 2023. They killed, raped, tortured
Sun Jul 20, 2025, 11:18 PM
Sunday

And kidnapped civilians. They killed 1200 in cold blood. Kidnapped 240. Videotapes of the atrocities exist if you look. They found children in an oven.

Are you shocked that those they attacked seem to have lost patience and humanity? Was this attack on civilian a war crime?

AloeVera

(3,284 posts)
24. Never mind. Have a nice evening.
Sun Jul 20, 2025, 11:36 PM
Sunday

There were no children baked in ovens - or hanging from clotheslines or decapitated either (but there actually are many of those in Gaza).

You might want to look at the meaning of collective punishment and why it is a war crime. You might want to look up "atrocity propaganda " too.







sheshe2

(92,925 posts)
41. Perhaps you should ready some of the forensics.
Mon Jul 21, 2025, 12:53 AM
Yesterday
Children were shot and burned alive on October 7, forensic evidence shows
Police cyber and forensics teams work tirelessly collecting hundreds of thousands of video clips and testimonies across communities near the Gaza border to uncover facts about Hamas' brutal killing of children. Warning: viewer discretion is advised


https://www.ynetnews.com/article/hjqyi11q0r

Israel turns to DNA and dental imprints to identify unrecognizable bodies

SHAPIRO: More than a thousand bodies have been brought here - truck after truck full of human remains, people who were murdered when Hamas stormed across the border from Gaza into Israel on October 7. Rabbi Weisberg breaks down as he describes in detail the conditions some of the bodies arrived in - burned and mutilated.

WEISBERG: (Through interpreter) Young girls, elderly women raped, soldiers and citizens whose heads were chopped off.

SHAPIRO: Many of the people identifying and caring for the dead are military reservists. They have day jobs as civilians. But since the attack, they've been here - like a dentist named Mayon (ph). She identifies people's remains by their dental imprints.


https://www.npr.org/2023/10/17/1206601854/israel-turns-to-dna-and-dental-imprints-to-identify-unrecognizable-bodies

Attackers laughed as they raped and murdered a woman in Israel on October 7, witness says

Five men came out of the van and captured a woman, ripping off her clothes as they formed a circle around her. One raped her and killed her with a knife. Then he raped her again, said Raz Cohen, a survivor of Hamas’ murderous rampage in Israel on October 7.

But the United Nations and human rights organizations were slow to denounce the reports of rape and mutilation against Israelis – mostly girls and women but also men. And Hamas has denied its fighters committed sexual violence during the coordinated attacks.

The UN agency UN Women released a statement in December condemning the attacks and saying it was “alarmed by the numerous accounts of gender-based
atrocities and sexual violence during those attacks.”


https://edition.cnn.com/2024/01/04/middleeast/sexual-assault-october-7-israel-witness-int/index.html


Ah, so it is just "atrocity propaganda " .







UpInArms

(53,136 posts)
76. "Five men"
Tue Jul 22, 2025, 08:32 AM
1 hr ago

Please tell me which of the children are responsible?

Not to be argumentative, just wondering why the children should be targeted.

BlueSpot

(1,115 posts)
29. That was Hamas
Sun Jul 20, 2025, 11:53 PM
Sunday

And Israel kicked their asses for it. Now they are going way too far. A people that once faced the reality of genocide but survived is now pushing genocide on another people. It's just too damn far extreme than making up for the Hamas attack. This is now nothing more than a land grab with a side of genocide. If that is antisemitism then I guess I just am. Not that I ever was before.

Then I remember how Trump does not, in any way, represent my opinions or views. Perhaps the majority of Israelis feel the same about Netanyahu. I don't know.

Melon

(583 posts)
39. I agree it's gone to far. But Hamas is the Palestinian people. Since 2007
Mon Jul 21, 2025, 12:14 AM
Yesterday

It’s not different. They control Gaza but the Palestinian people protect and support Hamas.

Response to Melon (Reply #39)

Ken Dayenu

(101 posts)
47. I agree it's gone too far as well
Mon Jul 21, 2025, 07:53 AM
Yesterday

But the constant accusations of genocide are unhelpful. My grandfather was from Poland, 90% of Jews in Poland were killed. That is what genocide looks like. Call it a Nakba 2.0, barbaric, brutal, abomination. Get a thesaurus and find whatever works for you, but genocide is just inflammatory and not helpful. And stop accusing Jews of being Nazis, that is just offensive.

muriel_volestrangler

(104,139 posts)
67. No. For a start, over half of Palestinians in the occupied territories live in the West Bank, not Gaza
Mon Jul 21, 2025, 10:08 AM
23 hrs ago

And that's not counting those who live in Israel, or other countries like Jordan or Lebanon, but might move to a Palestinian state if it had independence. Gaza hasn't had an election since 2006.

Saying "Hamas is the Palestinian people" is just ignorant.

Response to muriel_volestrangler (Reply #67)

Ken Dayenu

(101 posts)
55. If Palestinians are not responsible for Hamas
Mon Jul 21, 2025, 08:54 AM
Yesterday

Does that mean Israelis are not responsible for the actions of the settlers? Of course they are. They are complicit. Same is true of Palestinians in Gaza and around the world. Just days after Oct 7, Palestinians were out celebrating in my city in the US. They weren't saying OMG what Hamas did was terrible.

What is happening in Gaza is terrible. We can all agree that children are not to blame and we would like to see an end to it. Trying to cast Palestinians as innocent victims and Israel as evil it is not a representation of reality. There is both good and evil in both Israeli and Palestinian society. After 75+ years of war, both communities probably have PTSD and other mental disorders. I can't imagine living like either the Israelis or the Palestinians.

AloeVera

(3,284 posts)
66. The mental health of these societies is not the point right now.
Mon Jul 21, 2025, 09:59 AM
23 hrs ago

If it were, you could excuse the actions of October 7th. After all, in 2009 or so, it was found that Gaza's children had the highest level of PTSD in the world. Some of these children, especially the orphans, grew up to participate in October 7th. But that is an excuse because nothing justifies Oct 7th, right? Not the 17-year blockade, not the land theft in the WB, not the fact that they were subjected to daily violence and brutality on and on. Nothing, right?

I don't know what the settlers excuse is except they covet Palestinian lands because "God gave it to them" - but they sure are sick people.

The point right now is to stop the daily killing, the ethnic cleansing plan already being implemented, the starvation and destruction. Yesterday 67 starving people were shot and shelled to death by the "felt threatened" IDF, hundreds injured, as they looted an aid truck of flour. Why did they do that? Israel won't let in nearly enough food. 19 people including children DIED of starvation in the last day. The IPCC warns that 22% of Gaza's population is facing CATASTROPHIC levels of hunger. That is the stage at which people stop dropping dead. Only in a genocide does this happen. It is man-made entirely and it's the height of evil.

I don't know about you, but all this fills me with disgust, outrage and infinite sorrow for these people. So please I don't want to hear both-sides-ism. There is only one side committing this evil for nearly 2 years now and as long as we're still engaged in both-sides-ism, and collective guilt/complicity moral lapses, it won't stop.

But if you think all of Israeli society is responsible for the actions of the settlers, just as you imply all Palestinians are responsible for Hamas - does that mean that you would also "understand" why Palestinians would go on a rampage killing all Israeli civilians they could on Oct. 7th? Obviously they too thought all Israelis were "complicit" in what they have suffered for 75 years... Plus PTSD!!

Of course not. Because you can clearly see murdering Israeli civilians for revenge is wrong. Yet you are still engaging in explaining why all Palestinians are complicit, your point being - whether you realize it or not - to excuse or rationalize THEIR unjust killing for revenge.

What I've seen revealed consistently from Israel's defenders and supporters is a very telling double standard where Palestinian lives are not valued equally to Israeli lives. If they were, there would be no excuses or justifications for Israel's brutality towards them.

Ken Dayenu

(101 posts)
68. I think I do understand why Palestinians would go on a rampage (or at least I can try)
Mon Jul 21, 2025, 11:41 AM
22 hrs ago

Last edited Mon Jul 21, 2025, 05:48 PM - Edit history (1)

I don't excuse Oct 7 as I I don't excuse what is going on now in Gaza. Both are horrible. My position is that Israel should completely withdraw from Gaza and complete a prisoner swap. I've said that repeatedly. That said, I do think I can understand why both sides act the way they do or at least I can try. With respect to the settlers, the notion that "this is land is mine, god gave this land to me", I'll never get, but there are potentially other arguments about Israeli security I could understand. Understanding is not the same as excusing or supporting.

I agree with you 100%. There are a lot of double standards with people trying to argue one side or the other is good and the other is evil. I don't think this is helpful.

AloeVera

(3,284 posts)
73. I nearly fell off my chair reading the title of your post (in a good way)!
Mon Jul 21, 2025, 11:24 PM
10 hrs ago

Thank you for that, it is so refreshing and good to read. It's the "understanding" part that I wish more people could at least attempt to do. Every time I tried to say that here, you would think people thought I had two heads for even mentioning it!

Neither side is all good or all evil, I agree with that assessment! They are each dealing with the cards they've been dealt in different ways. Now if only they could see the other side as not purely evil - "animals"! - that would be a start.

When I criticize Israel it is not because I think Israel is "evil". It is because, based on the evidence I see, Israel is doing things that by any measure would be considered "wrong" at least, if not "evil". I did the same thing during GWB's Iraq war. Though I did think Bush was evil as I think Netanyahu is too.

It doesn't matter to me which side is doing the "evil", it needs condemning. If tomorrow Hamas started bombing civilians or starving them, I would condemn that too. As I condemn the killing and torture of civilians on October 7th and the rockets that indiscriminately killed during and afterward. I'm an equal opportunity condemner, you could say. It just seems like I am "biased" against Israel, but only because it is the one doing all the killing of innocents since October 8th!

Unfortunately Israel is not going to withdraw from Gaza nor is it going to let the Palestinians remain on their land. Every fact on the ground points to that. The time for speaking up against Israel's occupation and war on Gaza is past. It's too late. Had more people spoken out, say 18-20 months ago, when it was already becoming clear what the real plan was, it might have made a difference. But now, it makes no difference what your position is, it's already a done deal. Gaza is gone.

Ken Dayenu

(101 posts)
75. Understanding
Tue Jul 22, 2025, 08:09 AM
1 hr ago

I'd love to see a group of Palestinians and Israelis/Jews get to together with each standing up and stating their position and explain why they hold that position. No rebuttals, no debate. Everybody is there to take a moment to try to understand the perspective of the other. I think it could be an interesting. Could lead to a riot.

With respect to ethnic cleansing in Gaza, it could happen. There are definitely some people advocating for it in the government. With the exception of settlers, I don't think most Israelis have a strong desire to live in Gaza. To them, it would not be for the land, but to be free of conflict. If they took the land and moved everybody in to the West Bank, that wouldn't solve any problems. That is why I push back on the idea that Israel is doing this for land. Gaza is a tiny piece of not particularly great land.

If Hamas surrendered, released the prisoners, disarmed, and left Gaza, I think the rest of the Palestinians would be allowed to stay. 25% of Israelis are Arabs (Palestinians) and they coexist. Of course this is never going to happen, Hamas will never surrender. I don't think Israel will force out all of the Palestinians and I don't think that is the current intent, but there is no way to known the actual intent, I'd just be speculating. Time will tell.

erodriguez

(896 posts)
23. What a fucking heartless thing to say. Condoning war crimes. Its shameful
Sun Jul 20, 2025, 11:33 PM
Sunday

Israel is starving people. Then shooting them when they try to get food.

This is a war crime.

Orrex

(65,563 posts)
25. And that's a permanent blank check for Bibi's deliberate campaign of civilian murder, is it?
Sun Jul 20, 2025, 11:46 PM
Sunday

Must be nice to write off daily atrocities so easily.

Ken Dayenu

(101 posts)
51. It is difficult to be a Jew right now
Mon Jul 21, 2025, 08:28 AM
Yesterday

The fear for our own safety combined with anguish over what is happening in Gaza. Nobody I know is celebrating what is happening in Gaza. Nobody wants the death of random civilians, particularly children. We want Hamas destroyed or at least out of Gaza. After 20 months, I don't think this objective can be achieved by the IDF. The Palestinians will have to decide if they want them or not. I see no alternative to ending the war and seeing what happens.

Orrex

(65,563 posts)
61. I would imagine that it's difficult to be a Palestinian, too.
Mon Jul 21, 2025, 09:45 AM
Yesterday

In part because I'm not sure that they have any real way to get rid of Hamas.

Ken Dayenu

(101 posts)
65. Absolutely difficult to be a Palestinian right now
Mon Jul 21, 2025, 09:56 AM
23 hrs ago

And there is no comparison to the Palestinians in Gaza versus us keyboard warriors living comfortably far away from this conflict. With respect to getting rid of Hamas, I wish I really knew what Palestinians, particularly those in Gaza wanted. My impression is that they generally do support Hamas. There really needs to be elections in Gaza and the West Bank. Then we would know for sure.

There is the ASK Project where this guy goes around Israel and the West Bank asking people what they think about different questions related to Israel/Palestine. It is interesting, although you can never know if something is genuine or propaganda.

https://www.youtube.com/@CoreyGilShusterAskProject

atreides1

(16,789 posts)
56. Really?
Mon Jul 21, 2025, 08:54 AM
Yesterday

And where exactly is the mythical land you call Palestine? According to so many it doesn't exist and never has...regardless of what history has shown!

Just for future reference...it was Hamas and several other organizations that attacked an Israeli settlement...not Palestine!

Intractable

(1,159 posts)
17. Well, there's plenty of outrage over Gaza right here.
Sun Jul 20, 2025, 10:34 PM
Sunday

And plenty of sadness over the loss of Israel being well thought of.

And plenty of sadness over the loss of world favor for the United States.

Martin Eden

(14,632 posts)
21. One consequence of Gaza outrage in the US is shitting in the White House
Sun Jul 20, 2025, 11:13 PM
Sunday

I can't say for certain that outrage at "Genocide Joe" tipped the election, but it certainly was a factor.

Now we are flooded with one outrage after another right here at home, with the loss of our democracy hanging in the balance.

Don't get me wrong. I am not transferring blame onto Palestinians in Gaza, whose suffering is orders of magnitude more horrific. Nor am I suggesting their plight should not be a priority on the international docket.

But we are even more powerless to stop the horrors in Gaza than we are to stop the destruction of our government by the Trump regime. In fact, defeating this regime is the only way to change US policy towards the Israeli government.

Ken Dayenu

(101 posts)
48. America voted for Trump
Mon Jul 21, 2025, 08:14 AM
Yesterday

Trump isn't a dictator, the American people chose him. He didn't win because of electoral college BS. He got a majority of the votes. Almost 50% even. You may not have, I may not have, but the American people did. Americans aren't powerless. Americans got exactly what they wanted and it is horrific.

I don't know if I should comment on DU before I've had my first cup of coffee. I might say something I regret later, but I can't help but feel this way.

Martin Eden

(14,632 posts)
50. "Americans got exactly what they wanted"
Mon Jul 21, 2025, 08:23 AM
Yesterday

Americans believed a multitude of lies. When FAFO really kicks in as the economy tanks and they lose (or pay more for) health insurance, ask them if that's what they wanted.

Drinking my OJ now, coffee and a bagel come next.

Scrivener7

(56,488 posts)
54. I feel like there's no way for that outrage to get through. If we had elected Kamala, she could have done
Mon Jul 21, 2025, 08:47 AM
Yesterday

something about it. But those Americans whose direct friends and relations are now being slaughtered were the very same Americans who went out of their way to trash Kamala's election prospects.

So now what are we supposed to do?

maxsolomon

(36,909 posts)
72. The rage burned out raging against the Biden Admin's inability to control Israel's war.
Mon Jul 21, 2025, 04:50 PM
17 hrs ago

I'm sure Lefty College Kids, JVP and WOL are still very angry, but they're not out there being confrontational.

Maybe they know it's futile to demand anything of this Admin?

AloeVera

(3,284 posts)
74. Or maybe they know they'll be doxxed, intimidated, kicked out of college, jailed, deported, lose their jobs?
Mon Jul 21, 2025, 11:50 PM
10 hrs ago

Their degrees withdrawn/held?
Put on a blacklist?
Sent to Sudan?
Ostracized as an anti-semite and their professional life ruined?

The rage didn't burn out. It's smoldering and channelled in ways hard to predict. But for sure the college kids got a lesson on the power dynamics in this country and how the world really works.

And I think you mispelled *unwillingness* in your title.

Happy Hoosier

(9,007 posts)
77. Right now, I'm wondering....
Tue Jul 22, 2025, 08:35 AM
1 hr ago

,,, If my security clearance will be pulled because I am insufficiently loyal to the sitting President.

... and wondering if my wife's tenured professorship at a red state University is about to be eliminated.


In short, we have our own shit going on.

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