Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News Editorials & Other Articles General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

speak easy

(12,079 posts)
Wed Jul 16, 2025, 04:31 PM Jul 16

Krasnov's 4th of July not-so-funnies: Bomb Moscow and St Petersburg

Donald Trump asked Volodymyr Zelenskyy if Ukraine could hit Moscow, say people briefed on call

US president encouraged Ukrainian leader to step up deep strikes on Russia

The conversation with Zelenskyy on July 4 was precipitated by Trump’s call with Putin a day earlier, which the US president described as “bad”.

Two people familiar with the conversation between Trump and Zelenskyy said the US president had asked his Ukrainian counterpart whether he could hit military targets deep inside Russia if he provided weapons capable of doing so.

“Volodymyr, can you hit Moscow? . . . Can you hit St Petersburg too?” Trump asked on the call, according to the people.

They said Zelenskyy replied: “Absolutely. We can if you give us the weapons.”

Trump signalled his backing for the idea, describing the strategy as intended to “make them [Russians] feel the pain” and force the Kremlin to the negotiating table, said the two people briefed on the call.

Financial Times

Krasnov has walked it back.

Ukraine war briefing: Don’t bomb Moscow, Trump says, after reportedly giving Zelenskyy the idea
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/jul/16/ukraine-morning-briefing-dont-bomb-moscow-trump-says-after-reportedly-giving-zelenskyy-the-idea


10 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies

Botany

(74,872 posts)
2. Was Putin on the line listening too?
Wed Jul 16, 2025, 04:37 PM
Jul 16

Zelenskyy is smart enough to never give any real information to Trump.

Emrys

(8,680 posts)
6. Ukrainian drones have been capable of doing so for quite some time
Wed Jul 16, 2025, 05:12 PM
Jul 16

If Trump had been paying any attention, he'd have known that.

However, they generally haven't been targeting civilians, but rather infrastructure, e.g.:

Mapped: The latest strikes on Ukraine and Russia as war rages on - https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/moscow-drone-strike-ukraine-war-map-b2385704.html

Ukraine strikes Moscow in biggest drone attack to date - https://edition.cnn.com/2024/09/10/europe/ukraine-drone-strikes-moscow-intl

Three killed in biggest Ukrainian drone attack on Moscow region - https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukraine-launches-drone-attacks-targeting-moscow-russia-says-2025-03-11/

Some Russians celebrated Ukrainian drone strikes on Moscow, intercepted calls suggest - https://kyivindependent.com/some-russians-celebrated-ukrainian-drone-strikes-on-moscow-intercepted-calls-suggest/

Ukrainian drone attack on Moscow closes 2 major airports - https://www.politico.eu/article/ukrainian-drone-attack-moscow-closes-2-major-airports/

Ukraine drones hit St Petersburg gas terminal in Russia - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-68046347

Ukrainian drones reportedly hit industrial site near St. Petersburg in attack on multiple Russian oblasts - https://kyivindependent.com/drones-reportedly-attack-russias-leningrad-rostov-oblasts-causing-severe-fires/

Emrys

(8,680 posts)
10. The White House is now saying that Trump was "just asking" ...
Thu Jul 17, 2025, 07:15 AM
Jul 17

The Ukrainians haven't had weaponry to waste on attempts at terrorism by attacking solely civilian targets. There have been some civilian casualties as a result of their attacks of civilian infrastructure, but relatively few - certainly far, far fewer than the Russians have inflicted with their blatant and widespread attacks on medical facilities, blocks of flats etc. I think Ukraine would lose a fair amount of support and the higher ground if they changed tactics, and I don't foresee it happening.

As ever, once you look beyond the initial media reaction to a move by Trump, especially one involving support for Ukraine, the picture gets more complicated and the support less generous. Germany's on board with supplying the Patriots mentioned, and those could come soon, but France wants to focus on shoring up European arms manufacture, and Italy's not going to be involved. Kaja Kallas has pointed out that if the European powers and NATO partners are expected to foot the bill for whatever Trump chooses to allow to be bought, then we're talking about European and NATO, not US, support.

This pattern about long-range weapons supply has repeated at various times during the conflict. Even during Biden's tenure, Ukraine had its own weapons that had the range required when his administration was stalling, but payloads and stockpiles were relatively small, and they lacked stealth features.

I don't know the calculus behind Ukraine's desire for what will be relatively expensive US long-range weaponry compared to what they can increasingly produce domestically and in collaboration with their partners. While I'm sure more and a greater variety would be useful, I suspect it's more a question of signalling. They need to strike facilities on Russian soil that are being used to construct and launch the weaponry that's wreaking havoc in their cities during Putin's latest murderous onslaughts, and that's been the recent focus of their drone programme and other strategies - take out the archer, not just the arrow - so that's likely to be the main use to which they'd put supplies beyond anti-aircraft installations.

It hasn't had much media coverage in the last year or so, but Kellogg's framing in various interviews on Fox etc. of the incoming administration's plans regarding Russia and Ukraine was intended to be carrot and stick to encourage the parties to the negotiating table - more funding and supplies for Ukraine if it co-operated, the lifting of sanctions for the Russians if they did. Watered down and uncertain as it is, this latest move is closer to that strategy than Trump's moves so far, where he's sanctioned Ukraine but not Russia, and cut off supplies to Ukraine even though Zelensky has done all he can to comply with Trump's shifting whims.

Just don't expect Trump to do beyond the bare minimum to placate the Republicans in Congress and mollify to an extent US partners in NATO.

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»Krasnov's 4th of July not...