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H2O Man

(77,514 posts)
Wed Jul 16, 2025, 04:04 PM Jul 16

Epstein: Files in the Ointment

One of my associates, after reviewing the link to my last OP, laughed and said, “What the fuck? How did the maga cult become so stupid that they really believed in a satanic group of Democratic Party big-wigs, raping and cooking children, and that (the felon) was the only man brave enough to secretly oppose them?” I said, “Oh, that's easy. Let's start from back in 1988, when Bush the Elder was running for president.....” Before I could continue, he suggested I write it down and post it on DU, and send him the link.

In 1988, when Bush the Elder began his campaign for the presidency, the felon let Lee Atwater know he was “available” to be the vice president. Bush found this “strange and unbelievable.” So much for the incorrect concept that the felon did not long desire to obtain political power. (While I shall not footnote everything here, those interested should see page 326 of Jon Meacham's biography of Bush Sr.)

Next, we go to the years 2006 to 2008. Epstein is charged in a 53-page indictment, that suggests the identity of three co-offenders. The federal prosecutor Alexander Acosta accepts a plea agreement offered by Alan Dershowitz, which allows Epstein to leave his cell days to “work,” and closes the door on further investigations. Why did Alex do this? The Attorney General told him Epstein was “intelligence” and to “back off.” Acosta would, of course, serve as the felon's labor secretary.

In 2007, the beginning of what was known as the Tea Party took place. Republican leaders were aware that Ron Paul was getting support for a presidential run. The Tea Party would, they believed, keep right-wingers in the control of the party – including those normally to the right of the corporate republicans in Congress. In 2008, when Senator Obama became the Democratic Party's nominee for president, it caught on, attracting openly racist citizens. In the 2010 mid-terms, their numbers would win elections that created the Tea Party Caucus in Congress.

Thus, in 2011, the felon did two things: begin to demand President Obama'a birth certificate, and say he might run for president. The birth certificate bit was a call to racists that caught on. His campaign for the presidency fizzled out. Likewise, the Tea Party was no longer on the margins of the republican party, which would no longer support anyone of the manner of a Mitt Romney after his 2012 defeat.

The felon was elected president in 2016.

Those who orchestrated what in 2017 was known as Q-anon – the right-wing nest of retired FBI agents loyal to Rudy Guiliani – began a series of lies to program republican voters. Most, if not all, of the Q-anon information, if repeated by an individual, would be evidence that they were delusional. But it became thousands, then millions, that bought into the delusions. We all remember John F. Kennedy, Jr.'s being at the felon's events in Dealey Plaza.

More titilating, of course, was Q-anan's story of the satanic group – led by the Clintons – of child sex abusing world leaders. This included pointing out that Bill Clinton had known Jeffery Epstein. Before going on, I should note that though Clinton was a good president, he was an imperfect man, in the same way that men like JFK, King, and other great leaders were. But I can say with zero chance of error that Bill Clinton had nothing to do with Epstein's sex ring. It was business that brought the two together, for Epstein had financial juice on the international level.

In 2019, Epstein was again arrested. Among the items found in his NYC home's safe was an Austrian passport. Epstein had traveled to England, France, Spain, and Saudi Arabia using this passport in the past. Also found was evidence of sex trafficking, including files with under aged girls' names and the name of the men connected to them. (USA Today, July 10, 2019)

Jeffery died unexpectedly while incarcerated in the Metropolitan Correctional Center. This seemed odd, considering he was housed on the MCC's most secure wing. Rather than my going into depth on the MCC, Nic Tartaglione, and how many guards work for the Russian mob in NYC, I will suggest going to “Crime Wave,” the pod cast by Declan Hill, based on research he and his classes at the University of New Haven's studies of criminal justice and forensic sciences did.

Of course, the maga republican bowel movement changed hard facts into soft shit, and used these events to place even greater delusions into the cult's misunderstanding of the country they lived in. “Release the Epstein files!” became their war cry in 2024's presidential election. This, of course, answers my associate's question of how the members of the maga cult were led astray. But a funny (not humorous) thing happened. The felon was again elected. They learned that the actual Epstein files are the exact opposite of the nonsense they had told the cult. If released, they do no harm to Democrats, with the exception of the late Bill Richardson. (I hate even mentioning that, as I always respected him.

The most important thing that we need to do now is to actively support Rep. Jamie Raskin's call for A.G. Bondi to release two things: the Epstein files, and part two of Jack Smith's report on the classified documents the felon stole. I think Rep. Raskin is among the most intelligent and honest elected representatives in our country's history. The fact that he spoke about the two things in a recent press conference suggests that there may be a connection among the files he stole.

64 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Epstein: Files in the Ointment (Original Post) H2O Man Jul 16 OP
This is a prime example fitting *rump's standard modus operandi of projection in most everything Uncle Joe Jul 16 #1
Exactly! H2O Man Jul 16 #4
Wouldn't it be great if a reporter asked him johnnyfins Jul 16 #2
Yes! H2O Man Jul 16 #5
Thanks for putting it all together Saoirse9 Jul 16 #3
Thanks! H2O Man Jul 16 #7
Same as Donald... homegirl Jul 17 #61
"How could they be so fucking stupid?" OldBaldy1701E Jul 17 #62
Excellent WaterMan malaise Jul 16 #6
Thank you. H2O Man Jul 16 #8
Do you have one of those "Alexa" lawn mowers? usonian Jul 16 #41
An old push H2O Man Jul 17 #45
Strange times indeed! SalviaBlue Jul 16 #42
Great Summary. underpants Jul 16 #9
I remember Watkins, H2O Man Jul 16 #10
Okay. Done mowing. H2O Man Jul 16 #12
I remember the two gouts joke story underpants Jul 16 #25
Right. H2O Man Jul 16 #27
k&R spanone Jul 16 #11
Thanks! H2O Man Jul 16 #13
I take great joy in whatching him squirm, lie and hopefully..... spanone Jul 16 #14
One of my friends H2O Man Jul 16 #18
Lately, your posts have been connecting the dots/filling in some blanks for me. yonder Jul 16 #15
Thank you! H2O Man Jul 16 #19
That second paragraph has turned my head Easterncedar Jul 16 #16
You know? H2O Man Jul 16 #20
Right. Easterncedar Jul 16 #44
I'd really like to see the footnote to, "Q-anon - the right-wing nest of retired FBI agents loyal to Rudy Guiliani". flashman13 Jul 16 #17
Sure. H2O Man Jul 16 #22
DURec leftstreet Jul 16 #21
Thanks! H2O Man Jul 16 #23
Most people fail to understand how mainstream the entire convoluted Q mythology of conspiracy theories is among Karasu Jul 16 #24
It is their religion. H2O Man Jul 16 #29
Good resume. How did Epstein make all his alleged fortune, and... Justice matters. Jul 16 #26
Great questions! H2O Man Jul 16 #34
Thank you! This needs to be shown a light on who and where Justice matters. Jul 16 #37
Great post! Wild blueberry Jul 16 #28
Thank you! H2O Man Jul 16 #40
KNR and bookmarking. niyad Jul 16 #30
Thank you! H2O Man Jul 17 #46
A letter signed by Bondi - FEb 27, 2025 azureblue Jul 16 #31
Very good! H2O Man Jul 17 #47
When you mentioned 1988 and Lee Atwater dlk Jul 16 #32
Great call. H2O Man Jul 16 #39
There's a connection dlk Jul 16 #43
Exactly. H2O Man Jul 17 #48
History shows us who plays the long game dlk Jul 17 #50
Rec and bookmarked. Thanks for spending the time to write this. emulatorloo Jul 16 #33
Thank you! H2O Man Jul 17 #53
Excellent summation of events! llmart Jul 16 #35
Thanks! H2O Man Jul 17 #56
Trump had Top Secrets and lied about it. Kid Berwyn Jul 16 #36
The fact that he spoke about the two things in a recent press conference suggests that there may be a connection among mercuryblues Jul 16 #38
I guess it's just because I'm of an advancing age now... slightlv Jul 17 #49
Apropos (sorta), I remember John Dean going on about the hotel he checked into in NY... malthaussen Jul 17 #51
Maria Butina H2O Man Jul 17 #52
Wasn't she the one David Petraeus was involved with.... malthaussen Jul 17 #55
nah Kali999 Jul 17 #64
HUGE K&R! And thanks. 🙂 n/t OneGrassRoot Jul 17 #54
And to think H2O Man Jul 17 #57
I had a gut punch... OneGrassRoot Jul 17 #58
Yes. H2O Man Jul 17 #59
Strongly Recommended PATRICK Jul 17 #60
Nobody explains it better than you. Say hi to your friend from us Hekate Jul 17 #63

Uncle Joe

(62,480 posts)
1. This is a prime example fitting *rump's standard modus operandi of projection in most everything
Wed Jul 16, 2025, 04:17 PM
Jul 16


Thanks for the thread H2O Man.

H2O Man

(77,514 posts)
4. Exactly!
Wed Jul 16, 2025, 04:35 PM
Jul 16

Great call! The felon always projects. It is impossible for him to do otherwise. And the more pressure he is under, the more he projects!

Thank you!

johnnyfins

(2,513 posts)
2. Wouldn't it be great if a reporter asked him
Wed Jul 16, 2025, 04:27 PM
Jul 16

Why did you take Epstein case files to Mar A Lago?

H2O Man

(77,514 posts)
5. Yes!
Wed Jul 16, 2025, 04:39 PM
Jul 16

I hope that a few Democrats in Congress ask that publicly, in order to increase the chances of a journalist asking the felon.

Saoirse9

(3,894 posts)
3. Thanks for putting it all together
Wed Jul 16, 2025, 04:32 PM
Jul 16

These are all things I knew but you’ve put them together and given context.

Amazing essay.

I am still asking the same question as your friend though.

How could they be so fucking stupid?

Seriously!!! I lived in NYC in 47’s heyday. He was a buffoon even back in 1979 when I moved there. No one I knew, literally no one, thought of him as anything but a grifter and a serial womanizer. He couldn’t have been elected mayor if he wanted to. No one was interested in him for anything other than the occasional ridiculous headline.

They elected him president!!! How are they so f-ing stupid?

How is it that they can’t see through the constant lies?

H2O Man

(77,514 posts)
7. Thanks!
Wed Jul 16, 2025, 04:48 PM
Jul 16

I should have included the television series "The Apprentice." A sad reality is that television ruled the minds of a large portion of the public, much like it plus the internet do today. Reality is purposely blurred. I note that Jim Morrison spoke of this.

Without even going into AI, let's just think of human interactions with machines. In and of themselves, machines are unconscious. But in the constant human contact -- think young people and cell phones -- a strange relationship grows. It would seem odd to think that is limited to human's conscious level, when communicating with or by way of an unconscious machine, wouldn't it? And might that explain, at least in part, why my lawn-mower is more likely to catch on that the felon is a liar than most maga folks?

homegirl

(1,802 posts)
61. Same as Donald...
Thu Jul 17, 2025, 02:43 PM
Jul 17


Why Trump shouldn’t try to draw parallels between his Epstein and Russian scandals

If Donald Trump believes the Russia scandal and the Jeffrey Epstein scandal are of equal validity, then the White House has a real problem on its hands.



Trump says he was surprised that Jerome Powell, the Fed chair he appointed, was appointed

Donald Trump seemed to forget that he appointed Federal Reserve Chairman Jerome Powell, which was part of an unsettling pattern of cognitive missteps.



OldBaldy1701E

(8,466 posts)
62. "How could they be so fucking stupid?"
Thu Jul 17, 2025, 02:46 PM
Jul 17

They got exactly what they wanted. A racist, dictatorial narcissist who will do anything for the right payout.

Just what the vile element in this society wanted.

H2O Man

(77,514 posts)
8. Thank you.
Wed Jul 16, 2025, 04:51 PM
Jul 16

I wrote this on a couple breaks from mowing the lawn. It's 88 degrees and humid out these. So the OP is almost a court-certified document of what I was saying to myself as I mowed! (grin)

We are in the strangest of times!

H2O Man

(77,514 posts)
45. An old push
Thu Jul 17, 2025, 12:05 AM
Jul 17

mower. Thus, my lawn is a tad smaller than it was 30 years ago, with fewer trails mowed through the fields, swamp, and woods. My second cousin says we should get in shape to enter the 50+ Golden Gloves, as long as they have 15 second rounds.

underpants

(191,705 posts)
9. Great Summary.
Wed Jul 16, 2025, 04:53 PM
Jul 16

I’d never heard the QAnon ex-FBI loyal to Rudy angle. I thought the Watkins started and ran QAnon.

We watched a 6 part documentary on them and it was pretty clear it was them.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Watkins_(businessman)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ron_Watkins

H2O Man

(77,514 posts)
10. I remember Watkins,
Wed Jul 16, 2025, 05:08 PM
Jul 16

his father, and another guy who I can't think of at the moment. But yes, without question, they did.

Now, before I return to mowing, I'll say this: there was just a re-trial of a Karen Read in MA. You might be familiar, but for others who aren't, she was accused of killing her boyfriend by backing her SUV into him. Long story short, the FBI had investigated the case, as part of a wider investigation of corruption in the Boston area. The FBI outsources to groups, in this case the most respected in their field, and concluded that she did not hit him. Still, she was prosecuted twice, found "not guilty" by a jury, except for a drinking and driving charge.

The jury was not told that the FBI had hired the experts they heard testifying, because the judge ruled that would give their testimony unfair weight. Why? Because the FBI only outsources to the very best.

H2O Man

(77,514 posts)
12. Okay. Done mowing.
Wed Jul 16, 2025, 05:37 PM
Jul 16

What I believe is that two unidentified men -- a retired therapist and a retired Berkley professor -- had started a joke with a name similar to that ...... if I remember correctly, those letters (Q & ?) are what some religious scholars call what are believed to be pre-gospel writings of Jesus's sayings. Anyhow, it is rumored that Jim Kallstrom saw it, thought it was hilarious, and advocated for what would become Q-anon.

underpants

(191,705 posts)
25. I remember the two gouts joke story
Wed Jul 16, 2025, 06:45 PM
Jul 16

I probably heard it from you or at the same time. I thought that seemed true for a while. It has to be a joke. It was just too ridiculous. Then it became clear this was something completely different.

MTG got her start as a QAnon influencer.

There’s some truth in every joke.

H2O Man

(77,514 posts)
27. Right.
Wed Jul 16, 2025, 06:54 PM
Jul 16

I think that years ago, we discussed this. I think I even mentioned that my understanding was that a retired therapist and Berkley professor had come up with a joke to aim at the christian right. If memory serves me correctly, it may have come one evening at a small party of old YIPPIES! and one former underground fellow, as they consumed strong pot -- obviously, the types that ignored Nancy Reagan's dire warnings. Legend has it that a discussion of Abbie Hoffmans claim to have been baptized in Pat Boone's swimming pool as proof he could be trusted to come out of hiding that started the whole thing.

Kallstrom is an interesting character. His background experience in Vietnam is impressive, no matter how one viewed that war. He is said to be a serious man with a sense of humor.

H2O Man

(77,514 posts)
13. Thanks!
Wed Jul 16, 2025, 05:38 PM
Jul 16

Such projections will come splattering out of the felon's mouth in the days to come.

H2O Man

(77,514 posts)
18. One of my friends
Wed Jul 16, 2025, 06:13 PM
Jul 16

just called to arrange rides for tomorrow's rally. I told him about the felon blaming President Clinton! We were both laughing so hard!

yonder

(10,107 posts)
15. Lately, your posts have been connecting the dots/filling in some blanks for me.
Wed Jul 16, 2025, 05:56 PM
Jul 16

Same thing here and thanks.

H2O Man

(77,514 posts)
19. Thank you!
Wed Jul 16, 2025, 06:24 PM
Jul 16

I appreciate you saying that!

What's funny is that I didn't see this coming. It has taken on a life of it's own. I was just talking with a friend arranging rides for tomorrow's rally. He had come from a area historical society meeting. He said one guy was complaining loudly, saying the felon told us to forget Epstein, that there are more important issues facing the country. I said that if this had been taken care of long ago, most of the most pressing issues of the day would have been avoided.

As a very old man, I like to try to connect what is happening today with the past things that set things in motion.

Easterncedar

(4,756 posts)
16. That second paragraph has turned my head
Wed Jul 16, 2025, 06:11 PM
Jul 16

The post is entirely enlightening and terrifying.

Thanks.

H2O Man

(77,514 posts)
20. You know?
Wed Jul 16, 2025, 06:27 PM
Jul 16

The lie that the felon never wanted to be president. Right. Just like he is the only man who can defeat the Clinton's satanic cult that eats children at ritual picnics. A modest proposal, of sorts.

flashman13

(1,421 posts)
17. I'd really like to see the footnote to, "Q-anon - the right-wing nest of retired FBI agents loyal to Rudy Guiliani".
Wed Jul 16, 2025, 06:11 PM
Jul 16

That is something of a double fake q-anon reverse play. Interesting.

H2O Man

(77,514 posts)
22. Sure.
Wed Jul 16, 2025, 06:31 PM
Jul 16

In post # 9, underpants raised that issue. Underpants is one of this forum's members that I have long had the most respect for. Ant it is correct that there is a good series that named Watkins, his father, and I can't remember the name, but I think there was a third gentleman.

In posts #10 and #12, I responded by saying what I think took place.

leftstreet

(36,893 posts)
21. DURec
Wed Jul 16, 2025, 06:31 PM
Jul 16

Fascinating.

It's always been of interest to me that 6-7 months after old Poppy Bush croaked, Bill Barr (as Trump's AG and a former Bush deputy AG and family fixer) decides to arrest Epstein and confiscate all his files.

Hmm. Maybe the only person the cabal's been blackmailing is Trump himself.

H2O Man

(77,514 posts)
23. Thanks!
Wed Jul 16, 2025, 06:44 PM
Jul 16

I've never really understood Bill Barr, beyond knowing that he provided some help to a few of Bush the Elder's workers in the Iran-Contra scandal. And attempted to shield the felon from The Mueller Report (and investigation). An ugly toad with too much power to influence things over the years.

As Epstein's death was on Barr's watch, the investigation was up to him. We have learned that he lied about having watched a film that proved Epstein took his own life. Those who question what happen make some interesting points. The pod cast "crime waves" is perhaps the most objective. They take a close look at Barr.

Karasu

(1,697 posts)
24. Most people fail to understand how mainstream the entire convoluted Q mythology of conspiracy theories is among
Wed Jul 16, 2025, 06:44 PM
Jul 16

Republicans. It's practically a religion at this point, and you'd be hard-pressed to find a single American conservative who hasn't bought into at least one of the many, many related conspiracies they've shat out over the last decade. They are that delusional and divorced from reality.

Now the chickens have finally come to home roost and they're forced into a situation where they have to choose. This is the fate they deserve.

H2O Man

(77,514 posts)
29. It is their religion.
Wed Jul 16, 2025, 07:00 PM
Jul 16

In a sociological sense, it is absolutely a cult's belief system. I can think of no greater proof than during the 2024 campaign. A journalist asked two maga christian nationalists abou their thought and Jesus and the felon? They both said they liked the felon more, because he was strong while Jesus was weak. That is fucking scary!

I am convinced that Malcolm X would be happy to see your noting that the chickens are coming home to roost!

Justice matters.

(8,678 posts)
26. Good resume. How did Epstein make all his alleged fortune, and...
Wed Jul 16, 2025, 06:49 PM
Jul 16

who inheritated it? Anyone knows?

H2O Man

(77,514 posts)
34. Great questions!
Wed Jul 16, 2025, 07:08 PM
Jul 16

Extremely wealthy people who make their fortunes in private funded him. For example, look into Epstein's investments in a foreign nation's weapon production. One of the extremely wealthy people the public is unfamiliar with told him to invest. That is among the ways to finance an Epstein without leaving a trail. It's not the only one. (One can give a "friend" money to invest, such as when a Saudi prince gives Jared a few billion to invest in the West Bank.)

Epstein only had one blood relative when he died, his younger brother. The brother was not in Epstein's will. It appears that some went to pay off various legal cases, including lawyers and some victims.

Justice matters.

(8,678 posts)
37. Thank you! This needs to be shown a light on who and where
Wed Jul 16, 2025, 07:20 PM
Jul 16

his alleged fortune (millions upon millions) came from and went to to the last penny!

azureblue

(2,502 posts)
31. A letter signed by Bondi - FEb 27, 2025
Wed Jul 16, 2025, 07:06 PM
Jul 16

Dear Director Patel,

Before you came into office, I requested the full and complete files related to Jeffrey Epstein. In response to this request, I received approximately 200 pages of documents, which consisted primarily of flight logs. Epstein's list of contacts, and a list of victims' names and phone numbers.

I repeatedly questioned whether this was the full set of documents responsive to my request and was repeatedly assured by the FBI that we had received the full set of documents. Late yesterday, I learned from a source that the FBI Field Office in New York was in possession of thousands of pages of documents related to the investigation and indictment of Epstein. Despite my repeated requests, the FBI never disclosed the existence of these files. When you and I spoke yesterday, you were just as surprised as I was to learn this new information.

By 8:00 a.m. tomorrow, February 28, the FBI will deliver the full and complete Epstein files to my office, including all records, documents, audio and video recordings, and materials related to Jeffrey Epstein and his clients, regardless of how such information was obtained. There will be no withholdings or limitations to my or your access. The Department of Justice will ensure that any public disclosure of these files will be done in a manner to protect the privacy of victims and in accordance with law, as I have done my entire career as a prosecutor.

I am also directing you to conduct an immediate investigation into why my order to the FBI was not followed. You will deliver to me a comprehensive report of your findings and proposed personnel action within 14 days.

I appreciate your immediate attention to this important matter. I know that we are both committed to transparency for the American people, and I look forward to continuing to work with you to serve our President and our Country.

Sincerely,
(Pamela Bondi)

H2O Man

(77,514 posts)
47. Very good!
Thu Jul 17, 2025, 12:08 AM
Jul 17

I heard that a day or so after saying she had the file on her desk, Bondi said it would take a truck to actually bring them to her. But, because I avoid listening to her if possible, I have only heard her say the first thing.

dlk

(12,802 posts)
32. When you mentioned 1988 and Lee Atwater
Wed Jul 16, 2025, 07:07 PM
Jul 16

Wasn’t that around the time Trump first went to Moscow ostensibly to build a Trump tower, and began his special friendship with Putin? Seems like there might be a connection.

dlk

(12,802 posts)
43. There's a connection
Wed Jul 16, 2025, 10:15 PM
Jul 16

Russians play the long game. I appreciated your post and the context for current events.

H2O Man

(77,514 posts)
48. Exactly.
Thu Jul 17, 2025, 12:18 AM
Jul 17

I don't know if everyone understands that Epstein himself didn't need to blackmail anyone. His value was in passing on information.

The intelligence thought of the felon as a petty wanna-be mobster. He made and lost money. His daddy took care of him. He did have some connections with organized crime, of course. Michael Cohen was abe to open doors with him. It was at the time you noted that they saw he was laundering money. In time, Epstein served to provide intelligence for proof of this.

Epstein never was hard up for money. Those who found him useful kept him comfortable. Some were in intelligence, and others were in positions that allowed for financial gain. The second group was in position to influence what deals were made with some of Epstein's foreign guests.

People in this country often strike me as being unaware that others play the long game.

dlk

(12,802 posts)
50. History shows us who plays the long game
Thu Jul 17, 2025, 12:24 PM
Jul 17

And one hand washes the other. It’s not that difficult to figure out.

llmart

(16,661 posts)
35. Excellent summation of events!
Wed Jul 16, 2025, 07:18 PM
Jul 16

I had to read it through twice to capture it all in my head. Thanks for taking the time out from mowing to compile this. I do know one thing and that is all of us need to keep this topic going, either on social media or in our day to day lives or anyway possible because we cannot rely on legacy media to not let this die. You just know the Idiot is going to do everything he possibly can to try to distract people from this story and I fear what he does will be over the top, even more so than usual. Another "assassination" attempt possibly?

H2O Man

(77,514 posts)
56. Thanks!
Thu Jul 17, 2025, 12:59 PM
Jul 17

I'm hoping to watch a bit of the news before heading out to today's rally. It seemed like the reports I have seen indicate that the felon is having a brat attack, and is frustrated that he can't stop the widespread discussions on the Epstein files.

Kid Berwyn

(21,500 posts)
36. Trump had Top Secrets and lied about it.
Wed Jul 16, 2025, 07:20 PM
Jul 16

He also lied about his relationship with Epstein, a guy with jets that he could fly anywhere on the planet. Epstein’s brother said Trump and Melanie first consummated their love on one of Jeff’s jet. Jeff himself said he introduced the happy couple. Something else that needs to be remembered: Both Trump and Epstein were friends with Roger Stone and Roy Cohn, this guy:





The Final Lesson Donald Trump Never Learned From Roy Cohn

The unrepentant political hitman who taught a younger Trump how to flout the rules didn’t get away with it forever.


By MICHAEL KRUSE
Politico, September 19, 2019

One of Donald Trump’s most important mentors, one of the most reviled men in American political history, is about to have another moment.

Roy Cohn, who has been described by people who knew him as “a snake,” “a scoundrel” and “a new strain of son of a bitch,” is the subject of a new documentary out this week from producer and director Matt Tyrnauer. It’s an occasion to once again look at Cohn and ask how much of him and his “savage,” “abrasive” and “amoral” behavior is visible in the behavior of the current president. Trump, as has been well-established, learned so much from the truculent, unrepentant Cohn about how to get what he wants, and he pines for Cohn and his notorious capabilities still. Trump, after all, reportedly has said so himself, and it’s now the name of this film: “Where’s My Roy Cohn?”

What Cohn could, and did, get away with was the very engine of his existence. The infamous chief counsel for the red-baiting, Joseph McCarthy-chaired Senate subcommittee in the 1950s, Cohn was indicted four times from the mid-’60s to the early ’70s—for stock-swindling and obstructing justice and perjury and bribery and conspiracy and extortion and blackmail and filing false reports. And three times he was acquitted—the fourth ended in a mistrial—giving him a kind of sneering, sinister sheen of invulnerability. Cohn, Tyrnauer’s work reaffirms, took his sanction-skirting capers and twisted them into a sort of suit of armor.

Snip...

“I decided long ago,” Cohn once told Penthouse, “to make my own rules.”

He was acquitted in ’64, and he was acquitted in ’69, and he was acquitted in ’71, all the while thumbing his nose at the feds, but Cohn’s screw-you stance was a lifelong philosophy, entitlement plus boldness.

He was “an incredibly spoiled princeling of an only child,” Cohn cousin David Lloyd Marcus told me. “He always got his way,” recalled his favorite aunt. As an adult, the resting expression on his face, which was marred by a scar that ran like a scrape down the middle of his nose, was a mixture of “arrogant disdain” and a “whipped-dog look,” people observed, “caught somewhere between a pout and a challenging glare.”

Continues...

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2019/09/19/roy-cohn-donald-trump-documentary-228144



An important picture that ties things from commie-hunting Joe McCarthy era to Richard Nixon to Ronald Reagan to Donald Trump via Roger Stone and Associates and the late Jeffrey Epstein:



The Ghost of Roy Cohn

BY TERRY MELANSON · AUGUST 24, 2014

EXCERPT...

In an interview with former NYPD detective James Rothstein, this author discovered that such operations do exist and go far back into America’s secret history. Rothstein is no conspiracy theorist. He is a legend in American law enforcement and speaks from experience. Furthermore, he gave me two notable examples from his time as a detective. Rothstein had an opportunity to have a sit-down with infamous McCarthy committee counsel Roy Cohn. During this sit-down, Cohn admitted to Rothstein that he was part of a rather elaborate sexual blackmail operation that compromised politicians with child prostitutes (Rothstein, no pagination). Cohn told Rothstein that this operation was being carried out as part of the anticommunist crusade of the time (no pagination).

Rothstein also had an opportunity to speak to infamous Watergate burglar Frank Sturgis. During this conversation, Sturgis revealed one of the reasons for breaking into the Watergate. According to Sturgis, there was a “Pedophile Book” hidden away at the Democratic National Committee headquarters (no pagination). The book was supposed to have a list of pedophiles on the American political scene (no pagination). One can only imagine the power G. Gordon Liddy would have held over the government if he had such a book in his possession.

I asked Rothstein if Roy Cohn was a real anticommunist or just using the fear of communism to justify his sex ring. It seemed like a fair question. After all, Cohn had argued against homosexuals being schoolteachers when he himself was a homosexual. Perhaps Cohn’s hypocrisy extended to his anticommunism. Rothstein made it clear that Cohn was a genuine anticommunist (no pagination). Anticommunist sentiments aside, evidence suggests that the sex ring operation started by Cohn was used for more than fighting the threat of domestic communists. Fugitive ex-CIA officer Frank Terpil has claimed that sexual blackmailing operations directed by the CIA were intensive in Washington during the Watergate era (DeCamp 179). Terpil also asserts that his former partner, Ed Wilson, was coordinating one of these sexual blackmail operations (179). In a letter to author Jim Hougan, Terpil revealed Wilson’s modus operandi:

“Historically, one of Wilson’s Agency jobs was to subvert members of both houses [of Congress] by any means necessary…. Certain people could be easily coerced by living out their sexual fantasies in the flesh…. A remembrance of these occasions [was] permanently recorded via selected cameras…. The technicians in charge of filming… were TSD [Technical Services Division of the CIA]. The unwitting porno stars advanced in their political careers, some of [whom] may still be in office.” (Qtd. in DeCamp 179)

According to John DeCamp, a former Nebraska Senator and Vietnam War hero, Wilson’s operation was merely a continuation of the one set up by Cohn (179). When I asked James Rothstein if Palfrey’s outfit was a continuation of the sexual blackmail rings that began with Cohn, he answered in the affirmative (Rothstein, pagination). The NYPD veteran made it clear that Palfrey’s outfit could not exist in Washington unless it was a tool for the power elite and sinister factions of the intelligence community (no pagination). Somewhere in a Queens cemetery, the corpse of a high-powered attorney is smiling in his grave.

SOURCE:

https://www.conspiracyarchive.com/2014/08/24/the-ghost-of-roy-cohn/



The same Roy Cohn who taught Donald Drumpf also schooled Roger Stone and Jeffrey Epstein...



... Who knew what when? In Palo Alto, after Epstein’s conviction, he was a guest at a dinner for the MIT neuroscientist Ed Boyden that was hosted by LinkedIn co-founder Reid Hoffman. At the same dinner Elon Musk introduced Epstein to Mark Zuckerberg. Is money so powerful that it tramples all other considerations? As James Baldwin put it, “I can’t believe what you say, because I see what you do.”

One of the most remarkable moments in Tyrnauer’s documentary comes near the end, when it’s no longer possible to pretend that Cohn isn’t a liar and a fraud, when it’s no longer possible to deny that he lacks both shame and conscience. When Cohn was about to be disbarred in 1986 for defrauding his clients and for taking advantage of a dying and incompetent man, character witnesses began to emerge. There were letters to the court from William F. Buckley Jr., Barbara Walters, William Safire, and, of course, Trump, who wrote that Cohn “has been extremely loyal and extremely honest.” Were Cohn’s parties—was his protection—really that good?...

Source: https://www.townandcountrymag.com/society/money-and-power/a29130905/roy-cohn-documentary-wheres-my-roy-cohn/



It’s conceivable Matt Gaetz got some learnin’, too.




Steve Bannon also was pals with Epstein, even coaching him for interviews on tee vee.

mercuryblues

(15,777 posts)
38. The fact that he spoke about the two things in a recent press conference suggests that there may be a connection among
Wed Jul 16, 2025, 08:03 PM
Jul 16

the files he stole.

The connection is, he was blackmailed for them. Why else would they be stored where anyone could get them?

slightlv

(6,192 posts)
49. I guess it's just because I'm of an advancing age now...
Thu Jul 17, 2025, 11:16 AM
Jul 17

but it really jacks my jaws that so many "good" men have to prove themselves via sex with younger, if not underage, girls. One presidential candidate absolutely broke my heart because of it... I actually thought him above that kind of nonsense. Ha! The only one who hasn't so far is Obama... and if word ever comes out about him, it'll break my mind as well as my heart.

I put most of the blame on men, as so many I've met would drop in a sec and have sex with anything that moved (or didn't). But I have to put blame on the girls, too... not the trafficked ones, of course... but we have to many who are swept away by the allure of power and money. It's just heart wrenching all the way around; and of course, it'll never get better because of hormones, and human stupidity.

malthaussen

(18,192 posts)
51. Apropos (sorta), I remember John Dean going on about the hotel he checked into in NY...
Thu Jul 17, 2025, 12:28 PM
Jul 17

... while he was working for Nixon. Something about purple flock wallpaper and satin sheets. And there was that whole lawsuit about Maureen allegedly being a hooker. Mr Dean was alluding to some kind of prostitution associated with the Administration, albeit not necessarily of underaged girls.

Makes complete sense that intel/FBI would use honey traps to compromise people. To say nothing of foreign governments.

-- Mal

H2O Man

(77,514 posts)
52. Maria Butina
Thu Jul 17, 2025, 12:48 PM
Jul 17

was sent by Russia to "make nice" with the NRA. She was, in my opinion, perhaps the most classic case that people tend to remember.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6480163/In-possible-plea-deal-accused-Russian-agent-case-resolved.html

Another was Russian spy Anna Chapman, who -- among her many talents -- got into real estate in NYC. Anna and a handful of others were deported in July of 2010. I'm not sure of how many people remember that the Obama administration was taking care of business this way. But I knew that President Obama's administration was aware for some time of the Russian attempts to compromise business and other leaders in this country.

malthaussen

(18,192 posts)
55. Wasn't she the one David Petraeus was involved with....
Thu Jul 17, 2025, 12:58 PM
Jul 17

... or was that some other bimbo?

-- Mal

H2O Man

(77,514 posts)
57. And to think
Thu Jul 17, 2025, 01:09 PM
Jul 17

that this is a result of a conversation we had here years ago! So thank you!

OneGrassRoot

(23,790 posts)
58. I had a gut punch...
Thu Jul 17, 2025, 01:19 PM
Jul 17

earlier. (Not sure if this is the long-ago conversation you are referring to.)

I was reading something that mentioned the high likelihood that Epstein was an arms dealer or provided money laundering for such activities, starting in the 80s.

Then THAT name popped up in connection to him, saying some believe he was one of Epstein’s mentors: Adnan Kashoggi.

That took me back to 1983 when I was acquainted with Oliver North and Gov. Claude Kirk, the latter of whom wanted to put me in touch with Adnan Kashoggi. I was a young woman and privy to conversations I shouldn’t have been. Lawd…

H2O Man

(77,514 posts)
59. Yes.
Thu Jul 17, 2025, 01:29 PM
Jul 17

Our conversation got me to look a bit closer at all that surrounded Epstein. And Kashoggi was a key. I had mentioned him, and I think you messaged me with more information.

PATRICK

(12,289 posts)
60. Strongly Recommended
Thu Jul 17, 2025, 02:39 PM
Jul 17

All fairly well known facts that would have demanded accountability and investigation had we not been what we were for a very long time. I also said long, using JFK's tragically ironic term of historical "trajectory" that the perpetual minority party of the GOP, bound to the roots of its soul to the wealthy super minority MUST get worse to even survive. The combo of lies, media praise for the empty "new" conservatism, and an encyclopedia of dirty election fixing would still need a nut wing branching out through anger and dissatisfaction and end up with a dictatorship. And what crap did they end up trusting to placehold that glory?

One irony, likely in the Bush Sr. biography is that he himself tried to insert himself into the presidential succession with Ford(Nixon too?) with his CIA director job experience. Interesting that ending the Cold War had both the US and Russia looking in that direction and Russia still has it. All the Republicans and their owners were never going to go down like the Whigs. They would become the Know Nothings, the populists, the rubber stamp for the new Nero. To get what the very few want.

(BTW, if I had kept my old pushmower it would have been sharpened down to the axle by now. But I pay some service who does it in five minutes without me sneezing my head off. I still rake it though with that ubiquitous Covid mask.)

Hekate

(98,677 posts)
63. Nobody explains it better than you. Say hi to your friend from us
Thu Jul 17, 2025, 02:56 PM
Jul 17


Epstein: Files in the Ointment

One of my associates, after reviewing the link to my last OP, laughed and said, “What the fuck? How did the maga cult become so stupid that they really believed in a satanic group of Democratic Party big-wigs, raping and cooking children, and that (the felon) was the only man brave enough to secretly oppose them?” I said, “Oh, that's easy. Let's start from back in 1988, when Bush the Elder was running for president.....” Before I could continue, he suggested I write it down and post it on DU, and send him the link.

In 1988, when Bush the Elder began his campaign for the presidency, the felon let Lee Atwater know he was “available” to be the vice president. Bush found this “strange and unbelievable.” So much for the incorrect concept that the felon did not long desire to obtain political power. (While I shall not footnote everything here, those interested should see page 326 of Jon Meacham's biography of Bush Sr.)

Next, we go to the years 2006 to 2008. Epstein is charged in a 53-page indictment, that suggests the identity of three co-offenders. The federal prosecutor Alexander Acosta accepts a plea agreement offered by Alan Dershowitz, which allows Epstein to leave his cell days to “work,” and closes the door on further investigations. Why did Alex do this? The Attorney General told him Epstein was “intelligence” and to “back off.” Acosta would, of course, serve as the felon's labor secretary.

In 2007, the beginning of what was known as the Tea Party took place. Republican leaders were aware that Ron Paul was getting support for a presidential run. The Tea Party would, they believed, keep right-wingers in the control of the party – including those normally to the right of the corporate republicans in Congress. In 2008, when Senator Obama became the Democratic Party's nominee for president, it caught on, attracting openly racist citizens. In the 2010 mid-terms, their numbers would win elections that created the Tea Party Caucus in Congress.

Thus, in 2011, the felon did two things: begin to demand President Obama'a birth certificate, and say he might run for president. The birth certificate bit was a call to racists that caught on. His campaign for the presidency fizzled out. Likewise, the Tea Party was no longer on the margins of the republican party, which would no longer support anyone of the manner of a Mitt Romney after his 2012 defeat.

The felon was elected president in 2016.

Those who orchestrated what in 2017 was known as Q-anon – the right-wing nest of retired FBI agents loyal to Rudy Guiliani – began a series of lies to program republican voters. Most, if not all, of the Q-anon information, if repeated by an individual, would be evidence that they were delusional. But it became thousands, then millions, that bought into the delusions. We all remember John F. Kennedy, Jr.'s being at the felon's events in Dealey Plaza.

More titilating, of course, was Q-anan's story of the satanic group – led by the Clintons – of child sex abusing world leaders. This included pointing out that Bill Clinton had known Jeffery Epstein. Before going on, I should note that though Clinton was a good president, he was an imperfect man, in the same way that men like JFK, King, and other great leaders were. But I can say with zero chance of error that Bill Clinton had nothing to do with Epstein's sex ring. It was business that brought the two together, for Epstein had financial juice on the international level.

In 2019, Epstein was again arrested. Among the items found in his NYC home's safe was an Austrian passport. Epstein had traveled to England, France, Spain, and Saudi Arabia using this passport in the past. Also found was evidence of sex trafficking, including files with under aged girls' names and the name of the men connected to them. (USA Today, July 10, 2019)

Jeffery died unexpectedly while incarcerated in the Metropolitan Correctional Center. This seemed odd, considering he was housed on the MCC's most secure wing. Rather than my going into depth on the MCC, Nic Tartaglione, and how many guards work for the Russian mob in NYC, I will suggest going to “Crime Wave,” the pod cast by Declan Hill, based on research he and his classes at the University of New Haven's studies of criminal justice and forensic sciences did.

Of course, the maga republican bowel movement changed hard facts into soft shit, and used these events to place even greater delusions into the cult's misunderstanding of the country they lived in. “Release the Epstein files!” became their war cry in 2024's presidential election. This, of course, answers my associate's question of how the members of the maga cult were led astray. But a funny (not humorous) thing happened. The felon was again elected. They learned that the actual Epstein files are the exact opposite of the nonsense they had told the cult. If released, they do no harm to Democrats, with the exception of the late Bill Richardson. (I hate even mentioning that, as I always respected him.

The most important thing that we need to do now is to actively support Rep. Jamie Raskin's call for A.G. Bondi to release two things: the Epstein files, and part two of Jack Smith's report on the classified documents the felon stole. I think Rep. Raskin is among the most intelligent and honest elected representatives in our country's history. The fact that he spoke about the two things in a recent press conference suggests that there may be a connection among the files he stole.
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