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Dennis Donovan

(30,416 posts)
Wed Apr 23, 2025, 08:47 AM 20 hrs ago

Phillips P. OBrien: The Trump "Final" Proposal For Ukraine

Phillips P. OBrien - The Trump "Final" Proposal For Ukraine

Phillips P. OBrien
Apr 23, 2025

Hi All,

We have now, from the news service Axios, a list of points that make up the Trump plan which has been presented to Ukraine as a take it or leave it offer. This is what Trump has been pressuring the Ukrainians to sign, using the threats of the US walking away from the negotiations. The plan that Axios has seen is arguably the worst possible deal for Ukraine—far worst that most were saying Trump would try to impose. Here are the salient points.



To understand the most terrible parts of the deal, and where the US is bending over backwards to help Putin, you have to start with points 1 and 4.

Point 1 on Crimea ends the strategic world that the US has tried to institute since 1945 and in particular would end the European settlement that has governed the continent as well. It might come as a shock to you, but not a single European state has expanded its borders by conquest since 1945. Yes there have been countries dissolve (Yugoslavia and the USSR) but they broke up into constituent parts. However there has been no case of a country expanding its size by militarily seizing the territory of another for 80 years.

This will end that world, and establish a new principle that basically puts every European state on Russia’s (and Belarus’s) borders in real jeopardy. Now if you invade, ethnically cleanse and hold—its yours legally.

I will write much more about this later—but if Ukraine gives up legal claim to Crimea (which would require a constitutional change in Ukraine) Ukraine is establishing legal precedent that could be used by Russia to take over the rest of the country eventually.

/snip
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Phillips P. OBrien: The Trump "Final" Proposal For Ukraine (Original Post) Dennis Donovan 20 hrs ago OP
Trump is a gutless coward C_U_L8R 20 hrs ago #1
But Putin is delighted and pissing himself with laughter Walleye 20 hrs ago #2
trmp is a proxy for Russia. Zelenskyy should tell him to stick it. spanone 20 hrs ago #3
No can do.................. Lovie777 20 hrs ago #4
Maybe the fact that neither Rubio nor Witkoff can be bothered to attend these talks, Emrys 19 hrs ago #5
They couldn't have thought of this themselves dreamland 19 hrs ago #6
Putin's court stenographer couldn't have done better BeyondGeography 18 hrs ago #7
Zelensky reposted a 2018 statement by former Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, LetMyPeopleVote 12 hrs ago #8

Emrys

(8,585 posts)
5. Maybe the fact that neither Rubio nor Witkoff can be bothered to attend these talks,
Wed Apr 23, 2025, 09:24 AM
19 hrs ago

meaning the only US representative is the low-powered Kellogg, indicates that they realize there's no serious prospect of Ukraine - or its allies - accepting this "deal", and don't envision any substantive negotiations about it to alter its terms.

At this moment, Witkoff's too busy cosying up to Putin in Moscow, which no doubt feels like home to him by now.

dreamland

(1,081 posts)
6. They couldn't have thought of this themselves
Wed Apr 23, 2025, 09:27 AM
19 hrs ago

This administration is not smart enough to come up with such a complete list of demands that essentially will put Russia in control of European nations.

LetMyPeopleVote

(161,888 posts)
8. Zelensky reposted a 2018 statement by former Secretary of State Mike Pompeo,
Wed Apr 23, 2025, 05:06 PM
12 hrs ago


Zelensky reposted a 2018 statement by former Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, which reads:

“The United States reaffirms as policy its refusal to recognize the Kremin's claims of sovereignty over territory seized by force.”

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